[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 1, Issue 469
Van
vandel at ix.netcom.com
Sun Jul 13 20:44:42 PDT 2003
A Haupt family immigrated to the area near Minot North Dakota from
Vohlhynia, Ukraine. Family members had imigrated there from Grodziec,
RUSSIA, which was first Poland and then Prussia, then Russia and now Poland.
I have visited the Zagorow area and would be very interested in exchanging
any information that I have, although much of it is filled with
non-documented stories.
L. Van de Bruggen
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 11:33 AM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 1, Issue 469
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: Ger-Poland-Volhynia - Town of Grojetz/HAUPT
> (JSchu9014 at aol.com)
> 2. Re: RE: Ger-Poland-Volhynia - Town of Grojetz/HAUPT (Karl Krueger)
> 3. Re: Town of Grojetz/HAUPT (Jerry Frank)
> 4. Immanuel Lutheran Church of Bristol, Ct
> (Michael & Maureen McHenry)
> 5. Looking for places in Congress Poland (Antje Mass)
> 6. Re: Looking for places in Congress Poland (Jerry Frank)
> 7. Re: Immanuel Lutheran Church of Bristol, Ct (JDool90830 at aol.com)
> 8. RE: Immanuel Lutheran Church of Bristol, Ct
> (Michael & Maureen McHenry)
> 9. Re: Immanuel Lutheran Church of Bristol, Ct (JDool90830 at aol.com)
> 10. Re: Town of Grojetz/HAUPT (Jerry Frank)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:21:56 EDT
> From: JSchu9014 at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RE: Ger-Poland-Volhynia - Town of
> Grojetz/HAUPT
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <18c.1bd971eb.2c1e9fe4 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I recently received the EWZ papers for Amanda Haupt Nickel born in
> Glickstal/Bubny in Volhynia and may be the sister of Pauline Haupt Nickel
whose photo I
> found in an old album belonging to my Aunt Herta Haupt. Amanda's father,
> Gottfried Haupt is listed as being born in GROJETZ . I tried the
JewishGen
> ShtetlSeeker and got back 25 variations on spelling, but none of them were
exactly
> the same. Is it possible this might be the village of "GRODZIEC" found on
the
> far boarder of Poland near Prussia?
> Other towns near Grodziec are Zagarow, Konin and Slupca. Was this area
ever
> a part of Prussia and if so, when? Where would records dating 1845 to
1870 be
> held if they are available at all?
>
> Any help any one can give will be appreciated.
>
> Researching: Haupt, Mincho, Stolbe, Nickel, Rathfelder, Gungnus
>
> Janice Schultz
> jschu9014 at aol.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RE: Ger-Poland-Volhynia - Town of
> Grojetz/HAUPT
> To: JSchu9014 at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <20030616132936.39809.qmail at web40403.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Janice,
> Towns of where the previous generation were born (or had died) are
normally the only ambiguous pieces of data you have to deal with in EWZ.
This information was provided by the applicant while she/he was filing for
German citizenship and often was dependent on their memory, as well as their
ability to spell. Names for towns often took on different variations or
pronounciations within the German/Polish/Russian communities as well. If
Gottfried happened to be alive in 1940 and went through the
"Einbuergergungs" process, his EWZ record would likely be more accurate to
get this info. Or perhaps is there someone related from the same town of the
earlier generation that you can look up? Right now I don't want to make a
call for you on what or where Grojetz might be.
>
> What EWZ record did you obtain? Was it from EWZ50 (Ukrainian immigrants -
available only at the National Archives or the Berlin Document Center) or
EWZ57, EWZ58 (also available through FHC)? EWZ58 has everyone listed in the
order they applied so essentially you get entire towns grouped together. The
corresponding EWZ58 film may be of interest to you as you can see the
neighbors, friends, and possibly other relatives (from which you may glean
more info on Grojetz).
>
> You also said Amanda Haupt Nickel was probably the sister of Pauline Haupt
Nickel. Are you saying both Haupt sisters married into the same Nickel
family? I see this kind of thing happening quite often in Poland.
>
> Regards,
> Karl
>
>
> JSchu9014 at aol.com wrote:
> I recently received the EWZ papers for Amanda Haupt Nickel born in
> Glickstal/Bubny in Volhynia and may be the sister of Pauline Haupt Nickel
whose photo I
> found in an old album belonging to my Aunt Herta Haupt. Amanda's father,
> Gottfried Haupt is listed as being born in GROJETZ . I tried the JewishGen
> ShtetlSeeker and got back 25 variations on spelling, but none of them were
exactly
> the same. Is it possible this might be the village of "GRODZIEC" found on
the
> far boarder of Poland near Prussia?
> Other towns near Grodziec are Zagarow, Konin and Slupca. Was this area
ever
> a part of Prussia and if so, when? Where would records dating 1845 to 1870
be
> held if they are available at all?
>
> Any help any one can give will be appreciated.
>
> Researching: Haupt, Mincho, Stolbe, Nickel, Rathfelder, Gungnus
>
> Janice Schultz
> jschu9014 at aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:53:19 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <jkfrank at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Town of Grojetz/HAUPT
> To: jschu9014 at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030616073127.020e8520 at shawmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> At the very least, we know that the "c" at the end of a Polish word would
> usually be spelled "tz" by a German. Vice versa is also true - Schultz =
> Shulc. So there is a high probability that this is the right place.
>
> We also know from SGGEE databases that there was a Haupt family living at
> Lazinska Kolonia (not too far from Grodziec but somewhat closer to
Zagarow)
> including a Gottfried Haupt born there in 1836. Further research would be
> required to determine if this was a fit for your family or not.
>
> This area was part of South Prussia prior to 1806 when Napoleon marched
> through. At the Congress of Vienna in 1815, it was turned over to Russia
> and became part of Congress / Russian Poland.
>
> For a list of available records for Lutheran parishes of Grodziec,
Zagarow,
> and Konin, see http://sggee.org/PolishLutheranArchives
>
>
> At 12:21 AM 16/06/2003 -0400, jschu9014 at aol.com wrote:
> >I recently received the EWZ papers for Amanda Haupt Nickel born in
> >Glickstal/Bubny in Volhynia and may be the sister of Pauline Haupt Nickel
> >whose photo I
> >found in an old album belonging to my Aunt Herta Haupt. Amanda's father,
> >Gottfried Haupt is listed as being born in GROJETZ . I tried the
JewishGen
> >ShtetlSeeker and got back 25 variations on spelling, but none of them
were
> >exactly
> >the same. Is it possible this might be the village of "GRODZIEC" found
on
> >the
> >far boarder of Poland near Prussia?
> >Other towns near Grodziec are Zagarow, Konin and Slupca. Was this area
ever
> >a part of Prussia and if so, when? Where would records dating 1845 to
> >1870 be
> >held if they are available at all?
>
> Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
> jkfrank at shaw.ca
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:00:05 -0400
> From: "Michael & Maureen McHenry" <maurmike at bellatlantic.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Immanuel Lutheran Church of Bristol, Ct
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <011501c3340f$96ddfbf0$03a8a8c0 at DADPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I understand there are members on the list whose ancestors immigrated to
> Bristol, Ct. Does anyone have experience trying to obtain records from
> this church? They do respond to my enquiries.
>
> Mike McHenry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:01:42 +0200
> From: "Antje Mass" <antje.mass at web.de>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Looking for places in Congress Poland
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <200306161401.h5GE1cQ02702 at mailgate5.cinetic.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have the problem lately that I still find places neither on the card of
Hvfer publishing house nor on the Internet.
> Due to their importance looking for my ancestors, however, I hereby ask
whether perhaps somebody can help me along. Are there cards of Congress
Poland or the adjacent areas of approx. 1850 with detail of also smaller
places and municipalities or where I can make orders of such maps or an
Internet link?
>
> Thanks,
> Antje Mass
> ________________________________________________________________
> Mit der Grupppen-SMS von WEB.DE FreeMail kvnnen Sie eine SMS an alle
> Freunde gleichzeitig schicken: http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021179
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:00 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <jkfrank at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Looking for places in Congress
> Poland
> To: Antje Mass <antje.mass at web.de>,
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030616084730.020e83d8 at shawmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> The word Karte in German is a problem because it can be translated in two
> ways to English - card or map. I believe you are looking for maps of
> Congress Poland.
>
> There are a number of different sources that may be of help to you. The
> biggest problem is that sometimes it requires more than one map to show
all
> the different places.
>
> One on line source is http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> . It is very helpful for finding places where you don't have an exact
> spelling match. The problem is that it will often give you so many
options
> that it is difficult to know which is correct.
>
> You mention adjacent areas so for Prussian regions I recommend
> http://www.kartenmeister.com/ or for East Prussia
> http://www.webarchiv-server.de/pin/landkarte/kartenseiten.htm
>
> The Hoefer map is excellent but of course it only covers a small portion
of
> Congress Poland. For other maps that you can purchase, if you know the
> specific location, contact Dave Obee at http://www.genealogyunlimited.com
>
> A full list of other map resources on line can be found at
> http://sggee.org/Maps
>
> Finally, I do have a map for sale that shows over 3300 German villages in
> Congress Poland. It comes complete with an index. Email me privately for
> details.
>
>
> At 04:01 PM 16/06/2003 +0200, Antje Mass wrote:
> >I have the problem lately that I still find places neither on the card of
> >Hvfer publishing house nor on the Internet.
> >Due to their importance looking for my ancestors, however, I hereby ask
> >whether perhaps somebody can help me along. Are there cards of Congress
> >Poland or the adjacent areas of approx. 1850 with detail of also smaller
> >places and municipalities or where I can make orders of such maps or an
> >Internet link?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Antje Mass
>
> Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
> jkfrank at shaw.ca
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:13:04 -0400
> From: JDool90830 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Immanuel Lutheran Church of
> Bristol, Ct
> To: maurmike at bellatlantic.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <65750FAE.251D6B00.0AD747FC at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Mike, I have had 'some' contact with the Pastor of Immanuel Lutheran
Church. My mother was born in Bristal and the family went to Immanuel.
Adam and Anna Betcher - children Betty, Otto and Emma.
>
> I had inquired about getting copies of their baptism certificates and My
grandparent's marriage certificate and I never heard back from them.
>
> I also was on another emailing list where I had a discussion about this
with someone who said that the secretary told them she was far to busy to do
any lookups. Then there was supposed to be a member of the church who did
lookups, but I believe that gentleman passed. Someone else told me that all
the older records, for me it would be the early 1900's - were locked away in
a vault, either in the church or in a bank vault, I guess like a lock box.
>
> BUT, if you can get some information, I surely would be interested in
getting these records of my family, too.
>
> Jan Dool, Norfolk, VA
>
> > I understand there are members on the list whose ancestors immigrated to
> > Bristol, Ct. Does anyone have experience trying to obtain
> > records from
> > this church? They do respond to my enquiries.
> >
> > Mike McHenry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:55:39 -0400
> From: "Michael & Maureen McHenry" <maurmike at bellatlantic.net>
> Subject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Immanuel Lutheran Church of
> Bristol, Ct
> To: <JDool90830 at aol.com>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <000001c3341f$bc3b4fa0$03a8a8c0 at DADPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Jan
>
> The Bristol town clerk is much more cooperative. You can find the
> address and details at http://www.dph.state.ct.us/OPPE/hpvital.htm. I
> had my grandparent's marriage certificate within 2 weeks. They were
> married by the founding pastor Rev Duessel on January 1, 1903. The
> church has a web site http://www.ilcs.org/. It has a bit of the church
> history. My grandparents lived in Bristol 1901-1905.
>
> Mike McHenry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> JDool90830 at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 11:13 AM
> To: maurmike at bellatlantic.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Immanuel Lutheran Church of Bristol,
> Ct
> Importance: High
>
> Hi Mike, I have had 'some' contact with the Pastor of Immanuel Lutheran
> Church. My mother was born in Bristal and the family went to Immanuel.
> Adam and Anna Betcher - children Betty, Otto and Emma.
>
> I had inquired about getting copies of their baptism certificates and My
> grandparent's marriage certificate and I never heard back from them.
>
> I also was on another emailing list where I had a discussion about this
> with someone who said that the secretary told them she was far to busy
> to do any lookups. Then there was supposed to be a member of the church
> who did lookups, but I believe that gentleman passed. Someone else told
> me that all the older records, for me it would be the early 1900's -
> were locked away in a vault, either in the church or in a bank vault, I
> guess like a lock box.
>
> BUT, if you can get some information, I surely would be interested in
> getting these records of my family, too.
>
> Jan Dool, Norfolk, VA
>
> > I understand there are members on the list whose ancestors immigrated
> to
> > Bristol, Ct. Does anyone have experience trying to obtain
> > records from
> > this church? They do respond to my enquiries.
> >
> > Mike McHenry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:26:36 -0400
> From: JDool90830 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Immanuel Lutheran Church of
> Bristol, Ct
> To: maurmike at bellatlantic.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <46470BC4.7F49845E.0AD747FC at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Thanks for that info, I have already received the marriage license and
birth certificates for them from the Bristol clerk, who was wonderful.
>
> I really was trying to get the records from the church to see if there was
any more information as to the town where my grandparents were born.
>
> The church also has a website and that's where I was able to contact the
pastor. My cable isn't working well today, but if you go to Google. com and
type in Immanuel Lutheran, Bristol CT it will come up for you. Maybe the
pastor can give you more information about the old church records.
>
> Jan
>
> > Hi Jan
> >
> > The Bristol town clerk is much more cooperative. You can find the
> > address and details at http://www.dph.state.ct.us/OPPE/hpvital.htm. I
> > had my grandparent's marriage certificate within 2 weeks. They were
> > married by the founding pastor Rev Duessel on January 1, 1903. The
> > church has a web site http://www.ilcs.org/. It has a bit of
> > the church
> > history. My grandparents lived in Bristol 1901-1905.
> >
> > Mike McHenry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:25:02 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <jkfrank at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Town of Grojetz/HAUPT
> To: jschu9014 at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030616121751.0213fb20 at shawmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Further to my previous message, there is a town called Grojec (would
> definitely be spelled Grojetz) about 45 km south of Warsaw but there is no
> reference to Haupts in that area. Doesn't mean they were not there - just
> that we do not have any in the databases.
>
> There are actually at least 11 Grojec in all of Poland. At least one of
> them is in Posen which would have been Prussia if that is where you are
> expecting them to be from. It is about 22 km SW of Wrzesnia (48 km W of
> Konin).
>
>
> At 12:21 AM 16/06/2003 -0400, jschu9014 at aol.com wrote:
> >I recently received the EWZ papers for Amanda Haupt Nickel born in
> >Glickstal/Bubny in Volhynia and may be the sister of Pauline Haupt Nickel
> >whose photo I
> >found in an old album belonging to my Aunt Herta Haupt. Amanda's father,
> >Gottfried Haupt is listed as being born in GROJETZ . I tried the
JewishGen
> >ShtetlSeeker and got back 25 variations on spelling, but none of them
were
> >exactly
> >the same. Is it possible this might be the village of "GRODZIEC" found
on
> >the
> >far boarder of Poland near Prussia?
> >Other towns near Grodziec are Zagarow, Konin and Slupca. Was this area
ever
> >a part of Prussia and if so, when? Where would records dating 1845 to
> >1870 be
> >held if they are available at all?
>
> Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
> jkfrank at shaw.ca
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
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