[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
Peter
chamdo4ever at gmail.com
Tue Jul 22 08:31:08 PDT 2014
Thank you very much Karl. Your correction is noted and your advice is
very much appreciated.
As it stands, I think my family can secure a DNA sample from someone
who is Daubler's known Great-Grand-daughter by his first wife (though
she is very much older and time is of the essence).
Also, a sample can likely be secured from someone who is hopefully
August Daubler's Great-Grandson via Wilhelmine Hein and her daughter
Dorothea Hein.
Hence, the two samples would be obtained from two people who's
relationship is second cousins, *IF* August Daubler is Dorothea Hein's
Father.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> OOPs, I made one slight error corrected in CAPS.
>
> Dear Peter,
> Earl is correct that the only way to get an
> answer you are looking for is DNA testing. But you should
> know the limitations of this testing make sure you are
> comparing your DNA with the right descendants of August
> Daubler. Since your ancestor is a female you cannot have any
> Y chromosome markers from August. Mitochondrial markers will
> also not help since they would come only from the full
> female lineages tracing back to Wilhelmine Hein.
>
> You will have to use a service
> like 23andme that looks at markers on all 23 chormosomes.
> Since you will not know what markers may have been
> contributed by Wilhelmine passed down to Dorothea anyone you
> compare with should not be other descendants of Wilhelmine.
> You really need to compare your DNA with that of
> AUGUST's descendants who came from his divorced wife.
> Keeping in mind that with each generation only 50% of the
> genes get transferred to the next generation this will show
> what you are fighting against to try and establish your
> lieage with August. You just hope some of those critical
> markers from August were carried on in both your lineage and
> those you compare with. The markers are not solid evidence
> but only provide an estimated probability that you are
> related. If the probability comes out low that also does not
> mean you are not related - this false positive result could
> be accounted for by the fact different genes from August
> were passed down
> through your lieages.
> Karl
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re:
> [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the
> Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 7:43 AM
>
> Thank you tremendously Earl,
> for this
> very insightful note. Agreed --
> DNA testing does seem like a good way to
> proceed, and
> thankfully I
>
> think I know two people who could contribute the
> necessary
> samples.
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Earl
> Schultz
> <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> wrote:
> > In my experience,
> the illegitimate child takes the
>
> mother's surname but I believe I have seen a few cases
> where
> the child takes a witness' name
> and I assume that means the
> child was
> adopted or that the witness was the real
>
> father. One of my distant relatives in the 1800s lived
> unmarried with his spouse and he fathered many
> children with
> this woman and each church
> record said that the child was
> illegitimate
> but the children all took the father's name.
> >
> > The divorces
> I've seen were likely the result of a
>
> childless marriage as there were no children prior to the
> divorce but children from one of the spouses
> after the
> divorce. I've also seen one
> married man who must have
> been separated
> from his wife but unable to divorce who
>
> fathered a few children with another woman. The
> children took his surname but it was not until
> wife #1 died
> that we realized this was one
> man and not two different
> men.
> >
> > This doesn't
> "cut to the core" of what you are looking
> for but I would assume that the child would
> retain the
> surname of the mother even after
> marrying the father of the
> child. I did
> see at least one case like that.
> However,
> the man was not divorced but rather was single at
> the time of the birth of the illegitimate
> child, and then
> married the mother.
> >
> > If you find records
> from the Consistory Council you may
> not get
> the answers you are looking for. My maternal
> great grandmother (probably adoptive) was
> divorced in 1902
> and I received the divorce
> papers attached to the marriage
> document
> from the Archives. My Russian translator said
> that the divorce was "due to the fault of
> the husband" and
> it appears that he
> went to America and abandoned his
> family.
> However, no real reason was given in the
>
> document.
> >
> > It
> seems to me that this may best be solved by DNA, if
> you can compare the DNA of a descendent of
> that couple with
> the DNA of a descendent of
> the illegitimate child. It
> would be
> easier if both lines were male but you'd still get
> an idea using autosomal DNA.
>
> >
> > Isn't genealogy
> interesting...when I started this hobby
> I
> thought my family was going to be pretty boring...NOT.
> >
> > Earl
> >
> > -----Original
> Message-----
> > From: Peter [mailto:chamdo4ever at gmail.com]
> > Sent: July 21, 2014 9:36 PM
> > To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> > Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
> Seeking Records from
> the Evangelical
> Augsburg Consistory Council
> >
> > Thank you very much Earl. Yes, I most
> definitely will
> let the listserve know if I
> make any progress.
> >
>
> > In a slight digression, in that you are familiar
> with
> divorces near Plock, are you able to
> offer any insight into
> the legal twists of
> naming conventions of children born out
> of
> wedlock, especially when the Mother of such a child then
> marries a divorced man? That really cuts to
> the core of what
> I'm trying to find
> out. In fact, you can read my earlier
> post
> to the listserve on that subject here:
>
> >
> > http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/2014-July/027453.html
> >
> > In attempting to
> chase down this record of the
> dissolved
> marriage, what I'm really trying to establish is
> if it mentions that August Daubler committed
> adultery with
> Wilhelmine Hein (the woman he
> went on to marry), and could
> conceivably be
> the father of Wilhelmine Hein's illegitimate
> daughter (my ancestor) who was born a few
> years earlier and
> named Dorothea Hein due
> to the Father being "unknown."
>
> >
> > Many thanks,
>
> >
> > Peter Schmidt
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul
> 21, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Earl Schultz <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> wrote:
> >> Peter, I
> don't have an answer for you but I have
>
> noticed quite a few divorces in the Michalki records,
> near
> Plock, and I wrote an article about
> them for the SGGEE
> Journal (Sep 2009). I
> am interested if you track these
> down. I
> would approach the archives in Lipno and/or
>
> Plock and ask if they have these records. They do
> accept English emails but will reply in
> Polish. Also,
> I would try the
> Evangelical-Augsburg Church and you may want
> to start with the Berlin Evangelical-Lutheran
> Archives
> (EZAB) and they also accept
> English emails. Other than
> that, I
> can't help but I would appreciate you letting the
> listserve or me know what answers you
> receive.
> >>
> >>
> Earl
> >>
> >>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message:
> 1
> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:41:01
> -0400
> >> From: Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
> >> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> >> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
> Seeking Records from
> the Evangelical
> >> Augsburg
> Consistory Council in Tsarist Poyavskoi
> >> Message-ID:
>
> >>
> >>
> <CALr1thUbh--psugHy_BJQCTtzqUusBxVivWx3R+iDpGQOZGfFA at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=UTF-8
> >>
>
> >> Does anyone here know how I could track down the
> record of the judgement of the Evangelical
> Augsburg
> Consistory Council in Tsarist
> Poyavskoi regarding the
> dissolvement of a
> marriage in Plock in 1869?
> >>
> >> Would such a record still exist? How
> can I find out
> and begin the process of
> tracking down such a record?
> >>
> >> Any help or guidance would be greatly
> appreciated.
> >>
>
> >> Many thanks,
> >>
> >> Peter Schmidt
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >>
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> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 134, Issue
>
> 14
> >>
>
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