[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
Karl Krueger
dabookk54 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 22 08:17:33 PDT 2014
OOPs, I made one slight error corrected in CAPS.
Dear Peter,
Earl is correct that the only way to get an
answer you are looking for is DNA testing. But you should
know the limitations of this testing make sure you are
comparing your DNA with the right descendants of August
Daubler. Since your ancestor is a female you cannot have any
Y chromosome markers from August. Mitochondrial markers will
also not help since they would come only from the full
female lineages tracing back to Wilhelmine Hein.
You will have to use a service
like 23andme that looks at markers on all 23 chormosomes.
Since you will not know what markers may have been
contributed by Wilhelmine passed down to Dorothea anyone you
compare with should not be other descendants of Wilhelmine.
You really need to compare your DNA with that of
AUGUST's descendants who came from his divorced wife.
Keeping in mind that with each generation only 50% of the
genes get transferred to the next generation this will show
what you are fighting against to try and establish your
lieage with August. You just hope some of those critical
markers from August were carried on in both your lineage and
those you compare with. The markers are not solid evidence
but only provide an estimated probability that you are
related. If the probability comes out low that also does not
mean you are not related - this false positive result could
be accounted for by the fact different genes from August
were passed down
through your lieages.
Karl
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re:
[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the
Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 7:43 AM
Thank you tremendously Earl,
for this
very insightful note. Agreed --
DNA testing does seem like a good way to
proceed, and
thankfully I
think I know two people who could contribute the
necessary
samples.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Earl
Schultz
<Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
wrote:
> In my experience,
the illegitimate child takes the
mother's surname but I believe I have seen a few cases
where
the child takes a witness' name
and I assume that means the
child was
adopted or that the witness was the real
father. One of my distant relatives in the 1800s lived
unmarried with his spouse and he fathered many
children with
this woman and each church
record said that the child was
illegitimate
but the children all took the father's name.
>
> The divorces
I've seen were likely the result of a
childless marriage as there were no children prior to the
divorce but children from one of the spouses
after the
divorce. I've also seen one
married man who must have
been separated
from his wife but unable to divorce who
fathered a few children with another woman. The
children took his surname but it was not until
wife #1 died
that we realized this was one
man and not two different
men.
>
> This doesn't
"cut to the core" of what you are looking
for but I would assume that the child would
retain the
surname of the mother even after
marrying the father of the
child. I did
see at least one case like that.
However,
the man was not divorced but rather was single at
the time of the birth of the illegitimate
child, and then
married the mother.
>
> If you find records
from the Consistory Council you may
not get
the answers you are looking for. My maternal
great grandmother (probably adoptive) was
divorced in 1902
and I received the divorce
papers attached to the marriage
document
from the Archives. My Russian translator said
that the divorce was "due to the fault of
the husband" and
it appears that he
went to America and abandoned his
family.
However, no real reason was given in the
document.
>
> It
seems to me that this may best be solved by DNA, if
you can compare the DNA of a descendent of
that couple with
the DNA of a descendent of
the illegitimate child. It
would be
easier if both lines were male but you'd still get
an idea using autosomal DNA.
>
> Isn't genealogy
interesting...when I started this hobby
I
thought my family was going to be pretty boring...NOT.
>
> Earl
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Peter [mailto:chamdo4ever at gmail.com]
> Sent: July 21, 2014 9:36 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
Seeking Records from
the Evangelical
Augsburg Consistory Council
>
> Thank you very much Earl. Yes, I most
definitely will
let the listserve know if I
make any progress.
>
> In a slight digression, in that you are familiar
with
divorces near Plock, are you able to
offer any insight into
the legal twists of
naming conventions of children born out
of
wedlock, especially when the Mother of such a child then
marries a divorced man? That really cuts to
the core of what
I'm trying to find
out. In fact, you can read my earlier
post
to the listserve on that subject here:
>
> http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/2014-July/027453.html
>
> In attempting to
chase down this record of the
dissolved
marriage, what I'm really trying to establish is
if it mentions that August Daubler committed
adultery with
Wilhelmine Hein (the woman he
went on to marry), and could
conceivably be
the father of Wilhelmine Hein's illegitimate
daughter (my ancestor) who was born a few
years earlier and
named Dorothea Hein due
to the Father being "unknown."
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Peter Schmidt
>
>
> On Mon, Jul
21, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Earl Schultz <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
wrote:
>> Peter, I
don't have an answer for you but I have
noticed quite a few divorces in the Michalki records,
near
Plock, and I wrote an article about
them for the SGGEE
Journal (Sep 2009). I
am interested if you track these
down. I
would approach the archives in Lipno and/or
Plock and ask if they have these records. They do
accept English emails but will reply in
Polish. Also,
I would try the
Evangelical-Augsburg Church and you may want
to start with the Berlin Evangelical-Lutheran
Archives
(EZAB) and they also accept
English emails. Other than
that, I
can't help but I would appreciate you letting the
listserve or me know what answers you
receive.
>>
>>
Earl
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message:
1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:41:01
-0400
>> From: Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
>> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
>> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
Seeking Records from
the Evangelical
>> Augsburg
Consistory Council in Tsarist Poyavskoi
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
<CALr1thUbh--psugHy_BJQCTtzqUusBxVivWx3R+iDpGQOZGfFA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Does anyone here know how I could track down the
record of the judgement of the Evangelical
Augsburg
Consistory Council in Tsarist
Poyavskoi regarding the
dissolvement of a
marriage in Plock in 1869?
>>
>> Would such a record still exist? How
can I find out
and begin the process of
tracking down such a record?
>>
>> Any help or guidance would be greatly
appreciated.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Peter Schmidt
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list,
hosted by the:
>> Society for German
Genealogy in Eastern
Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 134, Issue
14
>>
****************************************************
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
>> https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
>
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
More information about the Ger-Poland-Volhynia
mailing list