[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Parish Records.... Several questions in under...

Thu Mar 29 03:31:37 PDT 2012

Maureen & Jerry,

Thanks for your insights and tips.  I will go back and pull out original
language re occupations and pursue understanding more as to what these
designations can tell me.  For my  grandmother, both her parents died within
several years and I assume she lived with the follow-on family of new wife
of her father after he died because part of this family followed my
grandmother in emigrating several years after she did.   I was quite
surprised to see relative involved in her wedding as legal tutor  from her
mother's family.  It is my grandmother's birth that I  referenced in Rawa
district so I am naturally disappointed to learn of fate of these records
(but learning they were in a cart run over by a German tank is quite
amazing!).  I still need to better understand her history and that of her
parents.  I have now, from these records, for the first time learned the
name of her father and am assuming it was his family that originated in Rawa
district. So I will regroup a bit and see if I can plot a new strategy for
determining this history. 

DO you know of a way of researching land owners from this time frame (i.e.
1840's - 1890's).

Best Regards and thank you!

Eugene Markiewicz

From: Spaghettitree at aol.com [mailto:Spaghettitree at aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 3:30 PM
To: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca; genemarkiewicz at aol.com
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Parish Records.... Several
questions in under...

Just a thought - might it be possible for that term "legal tutor" to be
interpreted as "legal representative" for a female whose father was
deceased?   Perhaps to give permission for her marriage, if she were very
young?  The term "tutor" just doesn't seem to belong in that format, given
that women had few, if any, rights, including education.   

I have a legal background, so this usage intrigues me.    

Maureen 

In a message dated 3/28/2012 6:19:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca writes:

Gene,

When our Parish List shows NKLR, we mean in microfilmed form.  In this case
the Radom Lutheran records are listed in the Polish Archives database of
records.  The Rawa Mazowieckie records are not listed there.

We have a personal report from the son of Pastor Hammermeister at Rawa that
the books were destroyed when a German tank ran over the horse drawn wagon
of the Pastor as he was fleeing from Rawa.  We would of course be excited to
find that a copy was available somewhere but so far nothing has appeared.

The Archive that would hold Rawa records is in Lodz.  I am going to be in
that Archive in May but do not expect to find anything for Rawa (but I will
look).

If a village is recorded with a different district name, it may or may not
be in the same parish.  Some parishes were small while others covered a very
large area.  Best is to stick with the political boundary rather than with
the parish boundary as you search for the villages.  When you find the
village, you will have to determine which Parish it was in.

I forget the exact number but in Poland there was at least a dozen or more
classifications for people of peasant class.  That is why you are seeing so
many variations.  Each one has a slightly different context in terms of
being a laborer only, whether or not you had some ownership status of the
land, etc.  It is sometimes difficult to translate these into English terms
so be cautious about how you interpret them.  Best to go back to the
original Polish term and do some research to determine the full context of
the word rather than just using a single word translation.

"Legal tutor" seems like an odd designation.  Again, you might want to go
back to the original Polish term to search for the full context of what it
implies.

Life span for women was often short because they often died in childbirth.
Many men however survived into their 60s and 70s.  You may have just hit an
anomaly in your particular family.  You would have to do a full community
study to determine how common it was.  I have one ancestor who died in his
90s c.1803 who had 5 wives and 24 children.  All the children predeceased
him.

Yes, it was very common to move around in the district.  The person may have
been working for the same landlord during those moves.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Markiewicz <genemarkiewicz at aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 3:45 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Parish Records.... Several questions in
understanding these entries.
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

>  
> 
> Hi, I am working my way through roughly 35 vital records I 
> received from the
> Radom Evangelical Augsberger Parish via the Radom Regional 
> Archives. The
> bulk of these records are from the 1840's through 1890 but some 
> are from
> before and some after.  I have had these records translated 
> so I am working
> with the English translation.  I have several 
> questions/observations for the
> group.
> 
>  
> 
> .         For the most 
> part, village names are provided with no additional
> information.  But, in a few cases, a village name is 
> provided with an added
> comment that the village named it is in a different 
> district.  My question
> whether I should  assume that a village name provided is 
> within the parish
> district unless in indicates otherwise?  This is 
> particularly important with
> birth locations in death entries and similar cases where a birth 
> place of an
> individual is provided (not a birth entry).
> 
> .         A couple of 
> village names were noted to be for the Rawa or Rawa
> Mazowiecka district. Similar to the Radom Parish, this parish is 
> listed as
> not having records that were micro-filmed by LDS.  So I 
> want to write to the
> appropriate regional archive (as I did for Radom).  Can 
> someone tell me
> whether this is likely to work and which archive location I 
> should try.
> 
> .         Does anyone 
> have any particular knowledge/expertise of this parish
> district?
> 
> .         Virtually even 
> male mentioned has an occupation or status
> indicated.  I have seen colonist, settler, tennant, 
> peasant,, laborer. for
> one woman it was servant and at my grandmothers wedding a man 
> attended who
> was identified as being her "legal tutor". both her parents were 
> dead and
> this "legal tutor" had the same last name as her mother's maiden 
> name.  Were
> these standard designations or just what the parish 
> pastor/administratorchose to use? I can assume which each 
> designation means but am curious as to
> whether these designations meant more than is obvious to me.
> 
> .         I am really 
> struck that so many of this family died in their 30's
> and early 40's.  Only a couple of them lived to 50.  
> Was this the norm for
> time & place?
> 
> .         My 
> grandfather's father (and family) seemed to have a different
> location noted every time they had a birth, death, marriage.. 
> Over a 30yr
> timeframe . But seemingly remaining in the same district within 
> a radius of
> 25 km or so.  He was mostly listed as a tenant.  Is my 
> assumption that  he
> most likely moved between farms as a laborer perhaps moving with 
> variouscrops a reasonable one. was this a common practice?
> 
> Thanks for your insights and your expertise
> 
>  
> 
> Eugene Markiewicz
> 
>  
> 
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