[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location

[Jan Textor]

Jerry,
 
I do not quite agree with you.  As I read the map, the village name "We~gierki" is a noun, not an adjective, and We~gierki means (Hungarian) plums.  I doubt that the village was settled by Hungarians.  If you take a look into the SGGEE Pedigree Database, you will see that there are 32 individuals with German names born in We~gierka, and absolutely none with Hungarian sounding names.  Maybe the colony was established near some plum orchards. :-)
 
The adjectives are:
for German = Niemiecki, niemiecka, niemieckie
for Polish = Polski, polska, polskie
for Hungarian = We~gierski, we~gierska, we~gierskie
 
With regard to "Rumunki", which is exclusively used in the region around Lipno, I thought that we had agreed upon that it is derived from the German word "Räumung", which means a clearing (in woods or forests).
 
Jan Textor
 
 
> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:47:40 -0700> To: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location> > Jutta,> > Please understand that I did not dispute the > interpretation of one for whom Polish is the > native language. I simply reinterpreted the term > in context of usage on the map.> > I also did not rely solely on GOOGLE. If you > would have referred also to the on line Polish > cookbook as I did, you would see that the word > refers very specifically to the variety of plum > known as the Hungarian plum. Specific quote:> > "We~gierki - Known in Polish as Hungarian plums, > they are widely used in Polish cookery . . ."> > My dictionary also shows that the more generic > Polish word for plum is either s~liwka, rodzynka, or gratka.> > And finally, I am also relying on the map itself > which shows adjectival forms as follows (the > mailing list might not see the italics but the > last word in each term is on the map in italics):> > Kol. Wia~czemin Niemieckie> > Wia~czemin Polskie> > Wia~czemin We~gierki> > Wymysle Polskie> > Wymysle Niemieckie> > Kol. Nowosiodly We~gierki or perhaps Swiniary We~gierki> > Niemieckie = German> Polskie = Polish> No reason not to assume that We~gierki = Hungarian (in my opinion)> > While the italics on the map are not exclusive to > the descriptive word, I believe that is the implication here.> > It is not necessary for the term to apply solely > to "Hungarian females" as settlers in this > area. The term used in my dictionary to > generically describe Hungarians is We~gierski > (note the s). Anyone who has studied Polish maps > as I have will know even Polish map markers are > inconsistent in agreeing on endings of many place > names. Minor changes through dropping or adding > a letter can make a significant difference in the meaning.> > Note that in other regions, especially around > Lipno but in other places as well, there are > place names given with the descriptive adder > "Romunki" or similar which, according to well > known Polish language expert Fred Hoffmann, implies Rumanian origins.> > Mr. Hoffmann is well respected in Poland and > elsewhere as a Polish etymologist. I will > forward the question to him for his > interpretation without expressing my opinion. I > will report his interpretation to the list and, > if I am wrong, I will certainly apologize.> > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta> FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> > > > At 05:01 AM 17/01/2009, Jutta Dennerlein wrote:> >Jerry,> >> >I'm not sure if the results of an English Google research should be> >used to 'outnumber' the experience of a native speaker of Polish> >(Anna) !> >The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has> >been published most times'.> >> >Especially not if the Google results mainly turn up 'Hungarian Plum> >Dumplings' and 'Hungarian Plum pox virus isolates'.> >In both cases 'Hungarian' does not relate to the Plum part of the> >term.> >> >My Polish-German dictionary shows two meanings for Wêgierka: 1.> >Ungarin [Hungarian female], 2. Hauspflaume, Zwetschge.> >Zwetschgen are exactly the kind of plums which the Niedrunger grew and> >dried for selling as prunes.> >> >But I really would like to hear more about these Hungarian females> >settling in the swamps of the Vistula.> >Probably a matriarchy society - remains of the very old cultures of> >Europe ! Let's Google for it ...> >> >Sorry for the cynicism> >> >Jutta Dennerlein> >www.upstreamvistula.org> >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org> > > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On> > > Behalf Of Jerry Frank> > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:50 AM> > > To: zglinka at wp.pl; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location> > >> > >> > > We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected> > > location. In both cases it shows We~gierka (with> > > the diacritic hook below the first e). My Polish> > > / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian.> > >> > > Your application of the word is probably correct> > > for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can> > > be readily researched on the Internet using> > > GOOGLE. See for example, "Polish Holiday> > > Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part> > > through GOOGLE Books).> > >> > >> > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta> > > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote:> > > >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind> >of> > > >fruit.> > > >> > > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps?> > > >> > > >> > > >Anna Zglinska> > > >> > _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv