[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
Peter
chamdo4ever at gmail.com
Tue Jul 22 10:13:57 PDT 2014
Hi Karl,
I recognize that this all can get very confusing -- I am indeed a
descendant of Dorothea Hein, and my family has contact with some
people who are known descendants of August Daubler's first wife with
whom he divorced.
Curiously, my family has always thought of those people as relatives,
but it is only recently that we've realized that our only blood
relationship to them would be if August Daubler was indeed Dorothea
Hein's Father.
I am familiar with 23andMe and I've also used FamilyTreeDNA.com --
both seem like worthwhile options.
Again, thank you and everyone on the listserve for your enthusiastic
support and guidance.
Best wishes,
Peter
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Peter,
> This sounds fine. I assumed you were a descendant of Dorothea Hein but I guess I was wrong. It sounds like you will only compare those two who would actually half-2nd cousins once removed.
>
> I looked into the coverage 23andMe provides which is about 933K SNPs (markers) which is very good. I have seen that estimates of 300K-600K SNPs is enough to confer identities close to one individual so among this large pile of data to be generated hopefully something will show up.
> Karl
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
> To: "Karl Krueger" <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "SGGEE" <ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org>, Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 11:31 AM
>
> Thank you very much Karl.
> Your correction is noted and your advice is
> very much appreciated.
>
> As it stands, I think my family can secure a
> DNA sample from someone
> who is Daubler's
> known Great-Grand-daughter by his first wife (though
> she is very much older and time is of the
> essence).
>
> Also, a sample
> can likely be secured from someone who is hopefully
> August Daubler's Great-Grandson via
> Wilhelmine Hein and her daughter
> Dorothea
> Hein.
>
> Hence, the two
> samples would be obtained from two people who's
> relationship is second cousins, *IF* August
> Daubler is Dorothea Hein's
> Father.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Karl Krueger
> <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > OOPs, I made one slight error
> corrected in CAPS.
> >
> > Dear Peter,
> > Earl
> is correct that the only way to get an
> > answer you are looking for is DNA
> testing. But you should
> > know the
> limitations of this testing make sure you are
> > comparing your DNA with the right
> descendants of August
> > Daubler. Since
> your ancestor is a female you cannot have any
> > Y chromosome markers from August.
> Mitochondrial markers will
> > also not
> help since they would come only from the full
> > female lineages tracing back to
> Wilhelmine Hein.
> >
> >
> You will have to use a service
> > like
> 23andme that looks at markers on all 23 chormosomes.
> > Since you will not know what markers may
> have been
> > contributed by Wilhelmine
> passed down to Dorothea anyone you
> >
> compare with should not be other descendants of
> Wilhelmine.
> > You really need to
> compare your DNA with that of
> >
> AUGUST's descendants who came from his divorced wife.
> > Keeping in mind that with each
> generation only 50% of the
> > genes get
> transferred to the next generation this will show
> > what you are fighting against to try and
> establish your
> > lieage with August.
> You just hope some of those critical
> >
> markers from August were carried on in both your lineage
> and
> > those you compare with. The
> markers are not solid evidence
> > but
> only provide an estimated probability that you are
> > related. If the probability comes out
> low that also does not
> > mean you are
> not related - this false positive result could
> > be accounted for by the fact different
> genes from August
> > were passed down
> > through your lieages.
> > Karl
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------
> > On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re:
> > [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records
> from the
> > Evangelical Augsburg
> Consistory Council
> > To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> > Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014,
> 7:43 AM
> >
> > Thank you tremendously
> Earl,
> > for this
> > very insightful note. Agreed
> --
> > DNA testing does seem
> like a good way to
> > proceed, and
> > thankfully I
> >
> > think I know two
> people who could contribute the
> >
> necessary
> > samples.
> >
> > On Tue,
> Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Earl
> >
> Schultz
> > <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> > wrote:
> > > In my experience,
> > the illegitimate child takes the
> >
> > mother's
> surname but I believe I have seen a few cases
> > where
> > the child takes a
> witness' name
> > and I assume that
> means the
> > child was
> > adopted or that the witness was the
> real
> >
> > father.
> One of my distant relatives in the 1800s lived
> > unmarried with his spouse and
> he fathered many
> > children with
> > this woman and each church
> > record said that the child was
> > illegitimate
> > but the children all took the
> father's name.
> > >
> > > The divorces
> > I've seen were likely the result of
> a
> >
> > childless
> marriage as there were no children prior to the
> > divorce but children from one
> of the spouses
> > after the
> > divorce. I've also seen
> one
> > married man who must have
> > been separated
> > from his wife but unable to divorce
> who
> >
> > fathered a
> few children with another woman. The
> > children took his surname but
> it was not until
> > wife #1 died
> > that we realized this was
> one
> > man and not two different
> > men.
> > >
> > > This doesn't
> > "cut to the core" of what you
> are looking
> > for but I
> would assume that the child would
> >
> retain the
> > surname of the
> mother even after
> > marrying the father
> of the
> > child. I did
> > see at least one case like that.
> > However,
> > the man was not divorced but rather was
> single at
> > the time of the
> birth of the illegitimate
> > child, and
> then
> > married the
> mother.
> > >
> > > If you find records
> > from the Consistory Council you may
> > not get
> > the answers you are looking for. My
> maternal
> > great grandmother
> (probably adoptive) was
> > divorced in
> 1902
> > and I received the
> divorce
> > papers attached to the
> marriage
> > document
> > from the Archives. My Russian
> translator said
> > that the
> divorce was "due to the fault of
> >
> the husband" and
> > it
> appears that he
> > went to America and
> abandoned his
> > family.
> > However, no real reason was given in
> the
> >
> > document.
> > >
> > > It
> > seems to me that this may best be solved
> by DNA, if
> > you can compare
> the DNA of a descendent of
> > that
> couple with
> > the DNA of a
> descendent of
> > the illegitimate
> child. It
> > would be
> > easier if both lines were male but
> you'd still get
> > an
> idea using autosomal DNA.
> >
> > >
> > > Isn't genealogy
> > interesting...when I started this
> hobby
> > I
> > thought my family was going to be pretty
> boring...NOT.
> > >
> > > Earl
> > >
> > > -----Original
> > Message-----
> > > From: Peter [mailto:chamdo4ever at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: July 21, 2014 9:36
> PM
> > > To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> > > Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> > > Subject: Re:
> [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
> > Seeking Records
> from
> > the Evangelical
> > Augsburg Consistory Council
> > >
> > > Thank you very much
> Earl. Yes, I most
> > definitely will
> > let the listserve know if
> I
> > make any progress.
> > >
> >
> > > In a slight digression, in that you
> are familiar
> > with
> > divorces near Plock, are you
> able to
> > offer any insight into
> > the legal twists of
> > naming conventions of children born
> out
> > of
> > wedlock, especially when the Mother of
> such a child then
> > marries
> a divorced man? That really cuts to
> >
> the core of what
> > I'm
> trying to find
> > out. In fact, you can
> read my earlier
> > post
> > to the listserve on that subject
> here:
> >
> > >
> > > http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/2014-July/027453.html
> > >
> > > In attempting to
> > chase down this record of the
> > dissolved
> > marriage, what I'm really trying to
> establish is
> > if it
> mentions that August Daubler committed
> > adultery with
> > Wilhelmine Hein (the woman
> he
> > went on to marry), and could
> > conceivably be
> > the father of Wilhelmine Hein's
> illegitimate
> > daughter (my
> ancestor) who was born a few
> > years
> earlier and
> > named Dorothea
> Hein due
> > to the Father being
> "unknown."
> >
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> >
> > >
> > > Peter Schmidt
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul
> > 21, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Earl Schultz
> <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> Peter, I
> > don't have an answer for you but I
> have
> >
> > noticed
> quite a few divorces in the Michalki records,
> > near
> > Plock, and I wrote an article
> about
> > them for the SGGEE
> > Journal (Sep 2009). I
> > am interested if you track these
> > down. I
> > would approach the archives in Lipno
> and/or
> >
> > Plock and
> ask if they have these records. They do
> > accept English emails but
> will reply in
> > Polish. Also,
> > I would try the
> > Evangelical-Augsburg Church and you may
> want
> > to start with the
> Berlin Evangelical-Lutheran
> >
> Archives
> > (EZAB) and they
> also accept
> > English emails. Other
> than
> > that, I
> > can't help but I would appreciate
> you letting the
> > listserve
> or me know what answers you
> >
> receive.
> > >>
> > >>
> > Earl
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Message:
> > 1
> > >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul
> 2014 12:41:01
> > -0400
> > >> From: Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
> > >> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> > >> Subject:
> [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
> > Seeking Records
> from
> > the Evangelical
> > >>
> Augsburg
> > Consistory Council in Tsarist
> Poyavskoi
> > >>
> Message-ID:
> >
> >
> >>
> > >>
> >
> <CALr1thUbh--psugHy_BJQCTtzqUusBxVivWx3R+iDpGQOZGfFA at mail.gmail.com>
> > >> Content-Type:
> text/plain;
> > charset=UTF-8
> > >>
> >
> > >> Does
> anyone here know how I could track down the
> > record of the judgement of
> the Evangelical
> > Augsburg
> > Consistory Council in
> Tsarist
> > Poyavskoi regarding the
> > dissolvement of a
> > marriage in Plock in 1869?
> > >>
> > >> Would such a record
> still exist? How
> > can I find out
> > and begin the process of
> > tracking down such a record?
> > >>
> > >> Any help or guidance
> would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> > >>
> >
> > >> Many
> thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Peter Schmidt
> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Digest
> Footer
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia
> mailing list,
> > hosted by the:
> > >> Society for
> German
> > Genealogy in Eastern
> > Europe http://www.sggee.org
> >
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> list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> End of
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 134,
> Issue
> >
> > 14
> > >>
> >
> >
> ****************************************************
> > >>
> > >>
> >
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