[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ilow records

[Albert Muth]

Thanks for these additional pointers.  To be honest, I had not
really distinguished between genealodzy.pl , which is the
website of the Polskie Towarzystwo Genealogiczne ("Polish
Genealogical Society") and genbaza.pl which is somehow
derivative of it.  On the opening page of Genealodzy, look on
the left side for the link to Genpol. At Genpol, you will see
the link to Genbaza.  Yup, it's a derivative--you can even see
it in the website design,

Though I have never quite understood how, the organization
clearly has had permission from the archives to photograph
images and post them online.  And it has been doing so for
a number of years.

Though sufficiently well done to be readable, the images
are NOT of the same quality as the ones that the State
Archives are posting at www.szukajwarchiwach.pl
By the way, the Polish phrase is linguistically transparent.
Szukaj w archiwach means 'search the archives"

Those who have not done much research yet need to
know that in Russian Poland, a Lutheran marriage record
normally takes up one complete page (though maybe 10%
of them are found two to a page, thanks to a more frugal
pastor).

If one examines an Iłów marriage record from Genbaza,
the image is of two pages (two records).  One clearly sees
a black border.  Just as a single example, see
http://metryki.genbaza.com/genbaza,detail,40572,123

In the Archives system, consider
http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/54/855/0/-/34#tabSkany
and just select one of the single record images. There
is also a border, though not as intrusive as on the two-page
image.  The images seen on this page happen to be for
the Lutheran parish of Konin (thanks to Gordon, who alerted
us all a few weeks ago to these unannounced new records).

One can easily and readily read both records, assuming
you can extract genealogical information from records
written in Polish and/or Russian--which is a prerequisite
for doing family history of German Lutherans in Russian
Poland.  This is not hard to do; in my Family History
Center, we have people who ONLY speak English
reading records in German, Polish, Slovak, Italian,
French, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Russian, Hungarian,
and so on (if you catch my drift).

In the short run, ANYONE who decides to use one or
more of these wonderful records, from any of the
three options, MUST decide how they are going to
source the information when they post it on their
family tree.  This is a basic requirement of genealogy,
that is, sourcing a record so that someone
else coming after you can find it INSTANTLY.
If you are not putting sources down for the information
you find, your children WILL throw all your stuff out
when you are gone.

I am going to come right over to your house, y'all, and
SMACK you, if you say "oh, I found it on the Internet".
It is as bad as saying, "oh, I read it in some book".
You KNOW better than to do this.  (Once a teacher,
always a teacher, I am)

In the long run, I believe the sourcing MUST be for and link to the
Szukajwarchiwach website, since the Polish State
Archives owns the images that they are and will be
posting online for our free consultation and subsequent
use.  I feel fairly certain that when the Archives posts
records for Iłów, it will be their own, and not those
generated by Genbaza or Genealodzy

At the moment, I can deduce that the signatura (or archival
call number) for Iłów will be 73/68/0.  But the reference is
still incomplete; it lacks the full call number referring to
the marriage books that I have been looking at. The names
of the files at Genbaza are confusing.  On the one hand,
the marriage record from there that I pointed to is titled L_4499.JPG
on the download page itself--and is the title when
I try downloading it.  But yet, at the head of the same download
page is a range of numbers in blue "First number 119 ... 123 ... 127 Last
Number"
where, apparently, 123 is the photo number (it's greyed out).

Most of you will not be losing any sleep over this.
If you do suffer from insomnia, I am sure that pondering
the issue some might cure it, maybe better than
counting sheep.

Have a great weekend.

Al Muth


On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Foote, Daniel <dfoote at okstate.edu> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I recently posted on the Facebook Poland Genealogy about a bit of my
> experience with these exact scans.
> So there's two websites of Church Record scans that have probably been
> mentioned on here. I have found overlap between them, and one has
> extracted information from some of the scans, yet does not have all
> the scans that the other one has.
>
> The first one I found by way of SGGEE's Lutheran Church Parishes page:
>
https://www.sggee.org/research/parishes/church_parishes/LutheransInRusPoland.html
> This page has links to Parish Record scans provided by two different
> websites. One is Metryki.GenBaza.pl
> Here's the root page for that one:
> http://metryki.genbaza.com/genbaza,list,4,1
>
> There are a lot of scans available here, both Catholic and Lutheran.
> However, only the Parish, the Year, and possibly the Record Type
> (Birth,Marriage,Death) are labelled, because they are labels for the
> 'folders' in the website menu. Once you get to the actual pages, it's
> just file names with no any other information. The only help for using
> these are that most books have an index on the very last one or two
> pages, or indexes after each year (in a multi-year book) or an index
> after each record type section (Births, etc). You have to click
> through the images to find these, as the image filenames have no
> indication of what is on a page. Most will have an index on the one or
> two last image files. Others will have images of the index pages
> somewhere within. Click through. It's no different than turning pages.
>
> While trying to make my own little list of a books filenames with a
> description or any names and villages I could decipher on each page,
> had to Google a bit to figure out what villages would be in a Parish,
> in order to get clues deciphering the handwriting. I found another
> website that has a bit of overlap with some of the Metryki.GenBaza
> scans: metryki.genealodzy.pl - Projeckt indeksacji metryk parafialnych
> [Parish Record Indexing Project].
>
> The main page has a menu to see what scans are available for parishes
> first according to the Wojewod [Province]. For instance, mazowieckie
> [Mazovia]. Then you see the powiaty [districts], and how many 'books'
> are viewable. For Mazovia, there are 23 districts with scans, and some
> districts like Lipsko have 1 'books', while Grodzki m. Warszawa has
> 29. Click on the district, and you see books of different parishes.
>
> However, there is a different way to peruse the metryki.genealodzy.pl
> records. Some of the scans have had the names, places, and dates
> extracted.
>
> To see the list of Parishes that have had had information extracted,
> go here: http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryki.php?op=ch
>
> If you click on one of these, say Kazun Polski, you will only see the
> first five of each type (Birth, Death, Marriage). You can choose how
> many records to show per page by finding 'pozycji na stronie' on the
> top right side (NOT VERY TOP) and selecting '5, 10, 20, or 50'.
> However, it seems that if there are many hundreds, you may have to
> restrict the records to a certain year, or record type. There's no way
> to choose a year, so you have to enter in the number (eg., 1808) in
> either 'od roku' [from year] or 'do roku' [to year].
> It's probably easier to restrict to record type: Urodzenia [Birth],
> Zgony [Death], or Malzenstwa [Marriage]. You do this with the
> Drop-Menu labelled 'Ksiega' toward the left side of the page.
> Finally, you can also search by names, but I doubt that this site has
> the capability to look for spelling variations. To search for a name,
> enter it into the blank text-box labelled 'Nazwisko' on the left side
> of the page. You should be able to press the 'Enter' key when you want
> to apply any restrictions to a search, but you can also click on the
> little button on the left side labelled 'Wyszukaj'.
>
> Although it is helpful to find a site with extracted information, I
> figured out that this one, Metryki.Genealodzy.Pl, DOES NOT have all of
> the same scans as Metryki.GenBaza. For example, GenBaza has scans for
> Kazun Polski from 1808-1855, whereas Metryki.Genealodzy.pl has only
> 1808-1823.
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