[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lachmann Samuel Birth

Thu Oct 6 13:53:02 PDT 2011

Concerning the birth of Samuel LACHMANN. Record found in the Roschischtche
Churchbook dublicates (St. Petersburg) 1866 page 666 # 113:
The record was written in 1866 but the heading says birth in 1865. Son
Samuel Lachmann was born 23. September 7 o'clock in the morning .
He was baptized 29  Sept.. Parents are Kol. Gottfried Lachmann and his wife
Juliane, born Wolf. Parents of luth. confession. He received the "Nottaufe"
(= emergency baptism) by the teacher Krueger in Helenow. Godparents were the
Kol. Andreas Schmidt and Friedericke Hoffmann.
The two locations are acc. To the guideline of SGGEE:
Bereske =  Beresk (Beresko/Beresk), Rozhysche, Volyn, Russian Empire
(Ukraine)	505229	245428	C-3
Helenow =  Helenow (N of Torchyn), Lutsk, Volyn, Russian Empire (Ukraine)
504800	245856	C-4

There are two more children mentioned in the Roschischtch (Rozhysche)
Churchbook dublicates:
Juliane Lachmann born 4 Mar 1875 born Vincentow and
Andreas Lachmann born 24 Jun 1877 born Vincentowka. I did not look up the
pages for those. The two village might be the same.

Greetings from Hamburg
Fran Stewner

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
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Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2011 21:00
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Betreff: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 101, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: scanned Warszawa Lutheran and Reformed Lutheran church
      records (Kenneth Browne)
   2.  Chicago (Sue Eipert)
   3. need help with translating occupation (Beatrix Hughes)
   4. Re: scanned Warszawa Lutheran and Reformed Lutheran church
      records (Jerry Frank)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 08:22:12 -0400
From: Kenneth Browne <kbrowne01518 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] scanned Warszawa Lutheran and
	Reformed Lutheran church records
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org,	Albert Muth
	<albertmuth734 at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E8C4BF4.3080809 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 10/04/2011 10:56 PM, Albert Muth wrote:
> For example, my grandfather was born in the parish of Przedecz, 
> located in the powiat of W?oc?awek in the Warszawa gouvernate, *143 
> kilometers* to the West of the capital city.  While knowing the 
> gubernia narrows your search somewhat, records are not indexed in a
central location anywhere in Poland.
> (Many US states have always had centralized indices, though these are 
> not necessarily available online).
>
In your example of your grandfather you've raised a question that has been
in my mind for some time now.
It involves the use of the terms, "parish" "powiat" and "gubernia" How do
these terms compare to the birth information below.

My grandfather was born in USA, Illinois, Cook County, Chicago and I even
know the street address.

His father's birth information from the SGGEE databases

Surname       Given Name     Birth Day and Month Birth Year     Event 
Place
Lachmann     Samuel             23 Sep             1865 
                        Roschischtsche
Father                  Mother                Film or Item     Page 
Number     Register     Remarks
Gottfried             Wolf, Julianna     1884089/1       666          
            113             Bereske

 From what I can gather from all sources that I've found so far Samuel
Lachmann was born in Roschischtsche, Volhynia (Helenow, Wolynskie, Poland).

As near as I can figure it comparing my great grandfather to my grandfather
it would be as follows:

Poland, Volhynia (Wolynskie), Helenow, Roschischtsche(Rozysche

The remark Bereske also puzzles me. Is it a place name? Which name would be
the powiat. I haven't seen that term before. Volhynia is the gubernia and
Roschischtsche the parish I think :-\ .

--
Kenneth Browne researching: BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF LACHMANN
RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE HECKBERT

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:44:56 -0700
From: Sue Eipert <seipert at gmail.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Chicago
To: Kenneth Browne <kbrowne01518 at gmail.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <4E8DCCF8.4040803 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Kenneth (and all),

I'm starting a new thread related to the Chicago part of your message.

Where in Chicago was your grandfather born?

I'm always interested in hearing about Germans from Poland that immigrated
to Chicago. My grandmother Anna Kopp came there from near Chodecz (powiat of
W?oc?awek) to join her brother. My grandfather Johann Radtke came to Chicago
from Crimea to join his cousin, Wilhelm Radtke, who had just arrived from
Poland (he was born in the Plock area).

They were married by Pastor Martin P.F. Doermann at Zion Evangelical
Lutheran Church in 1905, and their first four children (including my
father) were born there.

I have addresses for them and some relatives as well as the church; they are
all in the areas of Chicago called South Chicago or East Side.

Susan Radtke Eipert
seipert2 at gmail.com

On 10/5/2011 5:22 AM, Kenneth Browne wrote:
> On 10/04/2011 10:56 PM, Albert Muth wrote:
>> For example, my grandfather was born in the parish of Przedecz, 
>> located in the powiat of W?oc?awek in the Warszawa gouvernate, *143 
>> kilometers* to the West of the capital city.  While knowing the 
>> gubernia narrows your search somewhat, records are not indexed in a
central location anywhere in Poland.
>> (Many US states have always had centralized indices, though these are 
>> not necessarily available online).
>>
> In your example of your grandfather you've raised a question that has 
> been in my mind for some time now.
> It involves the use of the terms, "parish" "powiat" and "gubernia" How 
> do these terms compare to the birth information below.
>
> My grandfather was born in USA, Illinois, Cook County, Chicago and I 
> even know the street address.
>
> His father's birth information from the SGGEE databases
>
> Surname       Given Name     Birth Day and Month Birth Year     Event
> Place
> Lachmann     Samuel             23 Sep             1865
>                          Roschischtsche
> Father                  Mother                Film or Item     Page
> Number     Register     Remarks
> Gottfried             Wolf, Julianna     1884089/1       666
>              113             Bereske
>
>   From what I can gather from all sources that I've found so far 
> Samuel Lachmann was born in Roschischtsche, Volhynia (Helenow, 
> Wolynskie, Poland).
>
> As near as I can figure it comparing my great grandfather to my 
> grandfather it would be as follows:
>
> Poland, Volhynia (Wolynskie), Helenow, Roschischtsche(Rozysche
>
> The remark Bereske also puzzles me. Is it a place name? Which name 
> would be the powiat. I haven't seen that term before. Volhynia is the 
> gubernia and Roschischtsche the parish I think :-\ .
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:35:05 -0700
From: Beatrix Hughes <beatrix.hughes at gmail.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] need help with translating occupation
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID:
	<CAH4gxup_VQFMVw8XBM7T6B9CCPgtCS+FnjW=rDh2-rHAeVMRdQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm translating a Polish marriage certificate but I'm having trouble reading
the father's occupation. I wonder if I could email it to someone here?
Thanks,
Beatrix

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:24:41 -0600
From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] scanned Warszawa Lutheran and
	Reformed Lutheran church records
To: Kenneth Browne <kbrowne01518 at gmail.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <fb79fbd663abf.4e8d73d9 at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2

Kenneth,

I will try to clarify the location in point form.

1.? Parish is strictly a religious territory designation.? In some
jurisdictions that word represents a civil territory but never for either
Poland or Volhynia.? It is not always easy to distinguish whether reference
is to a parish or district because they sometimes have the same name.?
District and even parish boundaries may have changed over time so that a
parish which was once located solely in district ABC might later also be
within XYZ territory.

2.? In 1865 Volhynia was not part of Poland so including that in the
designation of your grandfather's birth location is not accurate.? Having
said that, the decision was made to standardize all place names within our
Master Pedigree Database (MPD) using modern territorial descriptions.? This
standard however does not apply to extracted databases such as VKP
(Volhynia, Kiev Podolia Database) where locations are entered as written.

3.? It is important to understand for extracted databases that a village is
not always provided.? In such cases, only the parish name is shown.? This is
especially true for marriage records in the VKP database but could apply
elsewhere as well.? 

4.? You would have to look at the original record (available on line) to see
why the place name Bereske is shown in the notes column.? It could be that
the family lived in Helenow but the baby was baptized by the Kantor in
Bereske or there could be another reason.

Hope this helps a little.? Others may weigh in with further clarification.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Browne <kbrowne01518 at gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011 8:26 am
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] scanned Warszawa Lutheran and Reformed
Lutheran church records
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org, Albert Muth
<albertmuth734 at gmail.com>

> On 10/04/2011 10:56 PM, Albert Muth wrote:
> > For example, my grandfather was born in the parish of
> Przedecz, located in
> > the powiat of W?oc?awek in the Warszawa gouvernate, *143
> kilometers* to the
> > West of the capital city.? While knowing the gubernia
> narrows your search
> > somewhat, records are not indexed in a central location
> anywhere in Poland.
> > (Many US states have always had centralized indices, though
> these are not
> > necessarily available online).
> >
> In your example of your grandfather you've raised a question that has 
> been in my mind for some time now.
> It involves the use of the terms, "parish" "powiat" and "gubernia" How 
> do these terms compare to the birth information below.
> 
> My grandfather was born in USA, Illinois, Cook County, Chicago and I 
> even know the street address.
> 
> His father's birth information from the SGGEE databases
> 
> Surname?????? Given
> Name???? Birth Day and Month Birth
> Year???? Event
> Place
> Lachmann???? 
> Samuel???????????? 23 Sep???????????? 1865 ??????????????????????? 
> Roschischtsche Father????????????????? Mother??????????????? Film or 
> Item???? Page Number???? Register????
> RemarksGottfried???????????? Wolf, Julianna???? 1884089/1??????
666????????? 
> ??????????? 113???????????? Bereske
> 
> ?From what I can gather from all sources that I've found so far Samuel 
> Lachmann was born in Roschischtsche, Volhynia (Helenow, Wolynskie, 
> Poland).
> 
> As near as I can figure it comparing my great grandfather to my 
> grandfather it would be as follows:
> 
> Poland, Volhynia (Wolynskie), Helenow, Roschischtsche(Rozysche
> 
> The remark Bereske also puzzles me. Is it a place name? Which name 
> would be the powiat. I haven't seen that term before. Volhynia is the 
> gubernia and Roschischtsche the parish I think :-\ .
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Kenneth Browne researching: BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF 
> LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE 
> HECKBERT_______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list

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