[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 12 Winter, Hansch families

Gary Tober getober at hotmail.com
Fri Sep 24 19:42:28 PDT 2010 

Checking Wiki for the Bolshevik party history, I found that they played a minor part in the 1905 revolution in Moscow and St. Petersburg and were,of course, Lenin's party. They broke off from the Menshevik party. Interesting that Bolshe means majority in Russian, a self-fulfilling prophesy, since they originally weren't the majority. But by cunning and nastiness......  But I divert from the story. It is doubtful that the death was caused by bolsheviks, but may have been revolutionaries of some ilk, and the name Bolshevik was handy and well known, thus identified by your family, since by 1917, they were the strongest party, it appears.
 
On another note, my grandmother Carolina Bertha Tober, b. Winter Dec 1886, was the daughter of Ludwig Eduard Winter and Anna Potz. She had one full sister and a half-sister, Paulina, and Matilda, and a brother Julius. There were a fair number of Winters in the Plock,Poland area, including the n. end of Lipno parish and Ilow parish, which is across the Vistula River on the west bank side. It is likely that your Winters came from that stock one or two generations back from your gg grandparent. Most probably the Winters originally came from Prussia, although, because the Tobers were in close association with them, there is a possibility that they were from Austria, as the Tobers were--well,the estates were in Hungary,but it was part of Austria then. The Tobers originated in Switzerland, according  to my grandfather Hermann Tober. He said they had been "land barons". The only Tobers who were so listed were "Frei Herr" in Austria.  I'm not really sure of the status of Freiherr, but it most likely was one of the lowest levels of royalty. One of the coats of arms variations was topped by a crown. There were five large estates in Hungary.
 
 
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 12
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 12:00:03 -0700
> 
> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir prior to 1904
> (Katherine Jeffrey)
> 2. Re: WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir prior to 1904
> (George Shoning)
> 3. Re: WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir priorto 1904
> (Richard Stein)
> 4. Re: WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir prior to 1904
> (Jerry Frank)
> 5. Kowalewko Plock (K. Gallagher)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:46:54 -1000
> From: Katherine Jeffrey <katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir
> prior to 1904
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimZ975tXBAG-G56kN9xkE9xY-OW94iWyws5a+UY at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I am looking for information on these families. Wilhelm and Rosalia WINTER
> (b. abt 1835 & 1839) were my gggrandparents. Their son Peter m. Luise
> HANSCH Mar 27, 1885. These were my ggrandparents. I can't finad any
> records for him, but family lore says the bolsheviks took him away and he
> was never seen again (probably after their youngest was conceived in 1897
> and before wife emigrated to Canada in 1904?) His sister Julianna WINTER
> was b. Sep 18, 1875 in Marianin. She later married a widower, much older
> than she was, a Wilhelm KROLL. The KROLLs emigrated through Ellis Island
> w/her WINTER parents in the late 1890s/1900. WINTERs also had a son/brother
> Michael who died Jan 30, 1880 in Rozyszce parish, Lezachow. Amelia WINTER,
> a daughter/sister had her baby, Adolf, there in 1883. Amelia WINTER went
> on to marry August HANSCH, brother of Luise in the 1880s (can't find a
> record) and they had 12 children, 7 of whom died in a smallpox epidemic in
> 1905. I believe there were a couple more HANSCHs who remained in Zhitomir,
> Adam and Stefan. A sister, Karolina HANSCH, emigrated either before or
> after marrying a man w/the last name MAIER (I think...) I don't know where
> else to look besides the St. Petersberg Extractions. I believe
> Luise(Louise) died somehwere in Strathcona, Alta, but I don't know when.
> She lived with her daughters' families there; they married OTTO and
> BABLITZ. I assume they are buried in some Lutheran Cemetery. I'm new to
> this website and new to searching for information outside the US. Can
> anyone help me with these families?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 17:56:10 -0600
> From: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of
> Zhitomir prior to 1904
> To: <katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com>,
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY140-W2408ED7ADF7D2A7BFC1888BE610 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> 
> Katherine,
> 
> One comment on your family's lore regarding the bolsheviks taking Peter Winter away. The bolsheviks did not take control in Russia until their revolution of October 1917. I believe it actually was not until the 1930s that the majority of Volhynian Germans disappeared due to bolshevik (communist) action.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:46:54 -1000
> > From: katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com
> > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir prior to 1904
> > 
> > I am looking for information on these families. Wilhelm and Rosalia WINTER
> > (b. abt 1835 & 1839) were my gggrandparents. Their son Peter m. Luise
> > HANSCH Mar 27, 1885. These were my ggrandparents. I can't finad any
> > records for him, but family lore says the bolsheviks took him away and he
> > was never seen again (probably after their youngest was conceived in 1897
> > and before wife emigrated to Canada in 1904?) His sister Julianna WINTER
> > was b. Sep 18, 1875 in Marianin. She later married a widower, much older
> > than she was, a Wilhelm KROLL. The KROLLs emigrated through Ellis Island
> > w/her WINTER parents in the late 1890s/1900. WINTERs also had a son/brother
> > Michael who died Jan 30, 1880 in Rozyszce parish, Lezachow. Amelia WINTER,
> > a daughter/sister had her baby, Adolf, there in 1883. Amelia WINTER went
> > on to marry August HANSCH, brother of Luise in the 1880s (can't find a
> > record) and they had 12 children, 7 of whom died in a smallpox epidemic in
> > 1905. I believe there were a couple more HANSCHs who remained in Zhitomir,
> > Adam and Stefan. A sister, Karolina HANSCH, emigrated either before or
> > after marrying a man w/the last name MAIER (I think...) I don't know where
> > else to look besides the St. Petersberg Extractions. I believe
> > Luise(Louise) died somehwere in Strathcona, Alta, but I don't know when.
> > She lived with her daughters' families there; they married OTTO and
> > BABLITZ. I assume they are buried in some Lutheran Cemetery. I'm new to
> > this website and new to searching for information outside the US. Can
> > anyone help me with these families?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 19:21:51 -0600
> From: "Richard Stein" <ra_stein at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of
> Zhitomir priorto 1904
> To: "Katherine Jeffrey" <katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com>,
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <6AB1BFE8D6C14C4E8B819095EC450A30 at RichardPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> 
> Katharine,
> 
> I picked up the mention of Strathcona, Alberta because I have an interest in 
> that area. However, in the rural history book that covers Strathcona there 
> is no mention of the families you list. I also looked them up in the SGGEE 
> database for Volhynia (St. Petersburg). Are you sure your Wilhelm Winter 
> family moved from Zhitomir parish to Leschachow in Rozyszcze parish. The 
> birth record of Julianna Winter 1875 gives the parents as Wilhelm Winter and 
> Rosalie Biedinger, whereas the birth records of sons Wilhelm 1877 and 
> Michael 1878 give the mother as Rosine Wegner for one and Rosine Werner for 
> the other. And the marriages of the children Peter Winter and Emilie Winter 
> are both back in Zhitomir in 1885. There may be two Wilhelm Winters. 
> Finally, the name Hansch can easily be misread as Hausch, or vice versa.
> 
> The first world war deportation to Siberia of Germans from Volhynia could be 
> an explanation for the disappearance of families. Many families were 
> decimated by the hardships and disease during this time, or they remained 
> far away in Siberia.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> Dick Stein
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Katherine Jeffrey" <katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com>
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:46 PM
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir 
> priorto 1904
> 
> 
> >I am looking for information on these families. Wilhelm and Rosalia WINTER
> > (b. abt 1835 & 1839) were my gggrandparents. Their son Peter m. Luise
> > HANSCH Mar 27, 1885. These were my ggrandparents. I can't finad any
> > records for him, but family lore says the bolsheviks took him away and he
> > was never seen again (probably after their youngest was conceived in 1897
> > and before wife emigrated to Canada in 1904?) His sister Julianna WINTER
> > was b. Sep 18, 1875 in Marianin. She later married a widower, much older
> > than she was, a Wilhelm KROLL. The KROLLs emigrated through Ellis Island
> > w/her WINTER parents in the late 1890s/1900. WINTERs also had a 
> > son/brother
> > Michael who died Jan 30, 1880 in Rozyszce parish, Lezachow. Amelia 
> > WINTER,
> > a daughter/sister had her baby, Adolf, there in 1883. Amelia WINTER 
> > went
> > on to marry August HANSCH, brother of Luise in the 1880s (can't find a
> > record) and they had 12 children, 7 of whom died in a smallpox epidemic in
> > 1905. I believe there were a couple more HANSCHs who remained in 
> > Zhitomir,
> > Adam and Stefan. A sister, Karolina HANSCH, emigrated either before or
> > after marrying a man w/the last name MAIER (I think...) I don't know 
> > where
> > else to look besides the St. Petersberg Extractions. I believe
> > Luise(Louise) died somehwere in Strathcona, Alta, but I don't know when.
> > She lived with her daughters' families there; they married OTTO and
> > BABLITZ. I assume they are buried in some Lutheran Cemetery. I'm new to
> > this website and new to searching for information outside the US. Can
> > anyone help me with these families?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 19:41:34 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of
> Zhitomir prior to 1904
> To: katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <d03fe67449bdd.4c9bad6e at shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Katherine,
> 
> Unfortunately I cannot help to answer your question about where to look to extend your research past the 1830s.? Perhaps we can help to clean up the story a bit.
> 
> As George stated, the detail of Peter's disappearance is wrong but he still could have been conscripted into the Russian Army, sent east, and disappeared.? 
> 
> Next, it is important to understand where your people lived in context.? You mention both Zhitomir and Rozyszce as residences.? This may well be a time dependent issue and relate to their parish of residence rather than actual location.? If you go to http://www.sggee.org/research/parishes/parish_histories/church_history.html and click on the Parish Diagram link, you will see how the parish names overlapped over time.? It is quite possible that your family always lived in the Rozyszce region even though they were identified as from Zhitomir.
> 
> If that is the case, then be aware that there are original Rozyszce Parish records are available post 1885 which are not part of the St. Pete records.? We have started to index them but the process is not complete.? They might provide some clues for you about Peter and his family.? The microfilm numbers are available on http://www.sggee.org/research/parishes/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia.html 
> 
> Hope this helps a little.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:58 pm
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of Zhitomir prior to 1904
> To: katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Katherine,
> > ?
> > One comment on your family's lore regarding the bolsheviks 
> > taking Peter Winter away.? The bolsheviks did not take 
> > control in Russia until their revolution of October 1917.? 
> > I believe it actually was not until the 1930s that the majority 
> > of Volhynian Germans disappeared due to bolshevik (communist) action.
> > ?
> > George
> > ?
> > ? 
> > > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:46:54 -1000
> > > From: katherinemjeffrey at gmail.com
> > > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> > > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WINTERs and HAUSCH families of 
> > Zhitomir prior to 1904
> > > 
> > > I am looking for information on these families. Wilhelm and 
> > Rosalia WINTER
> > > (b. abt 1835 & 1839) were my gggrandparents. Their son Peter 
> > m. Luise
> > > HANSCH Mar 27, 1885. These were my ggrandparents. I can't 
> > finad any
> > > records for him, but family lore says the bolsheviks took him 
> > away and he
> > > was never seen again (probably after their youngest was 
> > conceived in 1897
> > > and before wife emigrated to Canada in 1904?) His sister 
> > Julianna WINTER
> > > was b. Sep 18, 1875 in Marianin. She later married a widower, 
> > much older
> > > than she was, a Wilhelm KROLL. The KROLLs emigrated through 
> > Ellis Island
> > > w/her WINTER parents in the late 1890s/1900. WINTERs also had 
> > a son/brother
> > > Michael who died Jan 30, 1880 in Rozyszce parish, Lezachow. 
> > Amelia WINTER,
> > > a daughter/sister had her baby, Adolf, there in 1883. Amelia 
> > WINTER went
> > > on to marry August HANSCH, brother of Luise in the 1880s 
> > (can't find a
> > > record) and they had 12 children, 7 of whom died in a smallpox 
> > epidemic in
> > > 1905. I believe there were a couple more HANSCHs who remained 
> > in Zhitomir,
> > > Adam and Stefan. A sister, Karolina HANSCH, emigrated either 
> > before or
> > > after marrying a man w/the last name MAIER (I think...) I 
> > don't know where
> > > else to look besides the St. Petersberg Extractions. I believe
> > > Luise(Louise) died somehwere in Strathcona, Alta, but I don't 
> > know when.
> > > She lived with her daughters' families there; they married 
> > OTTO and
> > > BABLITZ. I assume they are buried in some Lutheran Cemetery. 
> > I'm new to
> > > this website and new to searching for information outside the 
> > US. Can
> > > anyone help me with these families?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:13:27 -0400
> From: "K. Gallagher" <gallag.4gen at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kowalewko Plock
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <733575AB-561C-4F5B-8444-A99D8F41E698 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> 
> I have been trying to locate a birth/baptismal record for my 
> grandfather, Adolph Schulz, born in the 1850s in Kowalewko, Plock to 
> Carl and Wilhemine (Schulz) Schulz. First I tried the Evangelical 
> Lutheran parishes surrounding Kowalewko: Plock: Mlawa, Sierpc and 
> Plonsk but did not locate the record or family. Then I found a 
> reference on-line to a Reformed Lutheran parish in that town. This 
> would be possible because the birth records of three children of his 
> by his first marriage are in Reformed Lutheran films of Klein Gluscha, 
> Volhynia. However, the records available for the Kowalewko Reformed 
> Lutheran parish referenced start in 1870, well after my grandfather 
> was born. Does anyone know where I can access Kowalewko Reformed 
> Lutheran records of the 1850s?
> 
> K. Gallagher
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
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> 
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 12
> ***************************************************

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