[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2
Ellen Borowski
eboro20 at peak.org
Sun Oct 3 20:56:23 PDT 2010
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Today's Topics:
1. Results from a visit to Warsaw (Paul Rakow)
2. Volhynia concern (K. Gallagher)
3. Re: Volhynia concern (Mauricio Norenberg)
4. Re: Volhynia concern (Richard Benert)
5. Rumsey Map collection (Mauricio Norenberg)
6. Teachers in Volhynia (Mauricio Norenberg)
7. Re: Teachers in Volhynia (LINDASUSAK at comcast.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 21:56:33 +0200 (CEST)
From: Paul Rakow <rakow at ifh.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Results from a visit to Warsaw
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1010012053510.8947 at pub4.ifh.de>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Dear All,
As you may remember, I asked for advice a few weeks ago,
in preparation for a short visit to the main archive (AGAD)
in Warsaw.
I was exploring a little, to see what I might find. Among
other things I found some tax lists, which could be useful for
anyone with German ancestors in Congress Poland.
Here's a short initial report on what I found, I am thinking
of writing a longer article for the Journal, with more details
about where to find these records in the Archive's Inventory books.
The most useful files I found were reports on the administration
of the Protestant parishes in Congress Poland. This includes things
like the calling of Pastors, the sacking of misbehaving Pastors,
building of churches, detailed inventories of church property,
and financial accounts.
Protestant Church Tax
Between the late 1820s and about 1850 the income side of the
accounts was from a Protestant Church "Income Tax" on the members.
The tax lists were updated every three years. They give a list
of the families contributing to the church, giving occupation and
tax class. It gives an idea of how much money your family was making
- I was surprised that my Huebner ancestors in Ozorkow were in the
second-highest tax band, so they must have been making quite a good
living as cloth makers; many clothmakers were in the lowest
tax band, class 5. Some congregations also list the poor families
who paid no tax, other parishes just miss them out from the list.
It looks like these tax lists exist for most Lutheran parishes
in Congress Poland.
Gross Bruzyca Parish
Howard Krushel asked me to keep an eye open for any records
from Gross Bruzyca parish, the first Lutheran church in the Lodz area.
I found a thick volume (409 pages) of files concerning the Gross Bruzyca
parish 1800-1822 (409 pp). This includes a list of all the members of
the founding congregation, and the call of the first Pastor, with a list
of the congregation members who made their mark on it. Possibly the
most interesting find were the early school reports. (Howard's ancestor
Gottlieb Krushel was an outstanding pupil, who worked very hard).
Protestants living in Lodz
Another interesting find were some lists prepared by the Lodz
magistrates of the Protestants in Lodz, 1854-1863 (Full lists,
1854, 1855, 1856 and 1860 - fragments early 60s.) As well as the
town itself, the lists include a few of the nearby villages, in
particular Nowasolna/Neu Sulzfeld, Lagiewniki, Chojny, Sikawa, Stoki
Lists give the head of the family, and the number of children
in each family.
Town Taxes
The government in Warsaw kept track of the finances of all
the larger towns. The first town I looked at, Belchatow, listed
all its taxpayers during the 1820s and 1830s; the list gave the
occupation and tax class, very like the church taxes we've
talked about earlier. However, the next two towns I looked
at, Zgierz and Ozorkow, didn't give detailed tax lists, just
total figures. So, I'm not sure what fraction of town records
will include full lists of individual tax payers.
Artisan's tax, Napoleonic times (1810)
There are a lot of records of an artisan's tax levied in
Napoleonic times, arranged by district (powiat) - the Kreis
from German times. This was a tax on people practising a trade,
(farmers/peasants were not included).
Colonist lists, South Prussia (c 1800)
The Prussians took over large parts of Poland after the second and
third partitions in 1793 and 1795. They soon lost this again, after
Napoleon conquered the area in 1807 and created a Grand Duchy of Warsaw.
I looked at colonist lists from this period of Prussian rule around 1800.
The people in these colonist lists were Germans from states outside
Prussia (for example Wuerrtemberg, Nassau) who were settled in the new
Prussian territories. The Colonist lists don't include Germans who were
already living in these areas during Polish times, or Prussians who
moved into the new lands.
----
One general point that it might be good to know in advance:
The Archive have introduced an important new rule in April this year,
here's what it says on the web-page:
http://www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl/eng/index.html
"According to the after control recommendation of the Head Office of
Polish State Archives in the Reading Room one could only read the archival
units with valid pagination.
Please note, that due to the fulfillment of this recommendation, from
April 2010, the expectation time for the archival unit, which have to be
paginated, could last even for two weeks."
Do you know what it means?
It took me a little while to figure it out. If you order a document,
and the pages have already been numbered, you will normally get it the
same day, or the next day if you order in the afternoon. But if you
order a volume where the pages aren't yet numbered, they can't give it
to you until the staff have numbered the pages, which could mean a wait
of up to two weeks before the document arrives. Inconvenient if you are
just visiting for a few days. You can't tell in advance whether a
document has numbered pages or not.
This has been a long posting, I hope some of you have found
something useful or interesting in it,
Paul Rakow
rakow at ifh.de
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 20:57:49 -0400
From: "K. Gallagher" <gallag.4gen at comcast.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia concern
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <876B5374-4AC0-4D84-94F0-551C74FE0572 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Was there something wrong with being from Volhynia? A good number of
the immigrants from Klein Gluscha whose families I have known did not
acknowledge that they came from there. One of my mother's half-
siblings consistently said that she was born in Middletown,
Connecticut although her confirmation record in MIddletown names Klein
Gluscha and she immigrated when she was old enough to remember where
she was born. When he applied for citizenship, her older brother said
he didn't know where he was born although he left Volhynia when he was
fourteen and certainly knew he was born in Borki. The children of
these two, and the first generation here of others did not seem to
know either. While I know that there was a considerable amount of
anti-German feeling during the war and they had security concerns, is
there more to it that I have not considered?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 14:18:34 +1300
From: Mauricio Norenberg <mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia concern
To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTik-KLgQQ4t8jaWSz=vv9x-VRQmcHeaYUbrj9DbH at mail.gmail.com>
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That's a good point.
My grandmother, who was born in 1910 had no idea his father came from a
place called Volhynia.
The only thing she used to say is that they were born in Germany, and then
moved to Volhynia, which proved not true since they were born in Poland.
She mentioned they didn't like to say they were born either in Russia or
Poland.
On 3 October 2010 13:57, K. Gallagher <gallag.4gen at comcast.net> wrote:
> Was there something wrong with being from Volhynia? A good number of
> the immigrants from Klein Gluscha whose families I have known did not
> acknowledge that they came from there. One of my mother's half-
> siblings consistently said that she was born in Middletown,
> Connecticut although her confirmation record in MIddletown names Klein
> Gluscha and she immigrated when she was old enough to remember where
> she was born. When he applied for citizenship, her older brother said
> he didn't know where he was born although he left Volhynia when he was
> fourteen and certainly knew he was born in Borki. The children of
> these two, and the first generation here of others did not seem to
> know either. While I know that there was a considerable amount of
> anti-German feeling during the war and they had security concerns, is
> there more to it that I have not considered?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 20:51:27 -0600
From: "Richard Benert" <benovich at imt.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia concern
To: "K. Gallagher" <gallag.4gen at comcast.net>,
<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <EC6B66818DA940E387A508311F0717DF at DickPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Several years ago there was a discussion on GR-Heritage listserve about a
tendency for our GR ancestors to be reluctant to admit to, and speak of,
their background in Russia. There are probably lots of reasons for this,
and we shouldn't forget that not all of them were so reluctant. I suspect
that when in Russia, most Germans rather felt like they were a notch or two
above the muzhiks around them, and some may have felt tainted somehow by
having this in their past. Russia was widely regarded as backward
throughout the western world, so who would want to be associated with it? I
remember one lady in my church in St. Paul who was so tied up about her
Russian past that it was a major victory for her to write about her
experiences in exile between 1915 and 1920. Much as she felt compelled to
preserve these memories for her family, she was held back for a long time by
her fear of admitting where she had come from.
So it wasn't just being from Volhynia that was the problem, but being from
Russia. Nevertheless, I'm wondering if some people from Volhynia,
especially those transferred out by the Nazis in 1940, might have absorbed
some of the disdain which many Nazi officers apparently felt for what they
sometimes regarded as low forms of German life coming into Poland with their
miserable German dialects and all. This is just a guess. But for sure
(since so many GR refugees from Russia spoke of it) many of them were deeply
hurt by the fact that homeland Germans referred to them often as "Roosians,"
a term not meant to flatter. In fact, weren't they sometimes called
Roosians in the U.S. and Canada?
Just some thoughts in passing....
Dick
--------------------------------------------------
From: "K. Gallagher" <gallag.4gen at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 6:57 PM
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia concern
> Was there something wrong with being from Volhynia? A good number of
> the immigrants from Klein Gluscha whose families I have known did not
> acknowledge that they came from there. One of my mother's half-
> siblings consistently said that she was born in Middletown,
> Connecticut although her confirmation record in MIddletown names Klein
> Gluscha and she immigrated when she was old enough to remember where
> she was born. When he applied for citizenship, her older brother said
> he didn't know where he was born although he left Volhynia when he was
> fourteen and certainly knew he was born in Borki. The children of
> these two, and the first generation here of others did not seem to
> know either. While I know that there was a considerable amount of
> anti-German feeling during the war and they had security concerns, is
> there more to it that I have not considered?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3171 - Release Date: 10/01/10
> 12:34:00
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 16:30:58 +1300
From: Mauricio Norenberg <mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rumsey Map collection
To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinEr=PKbrY5csFgsnZ69Wx-bPOgH4MA0nM3tQk+ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
This is very useful for who wants to understand the historical borders by
using Google Earth:
http://www.davidrumsey.com/view/google-earth
Mauricio
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 21:36:19 +1300
From: Mauricio Norenberg <mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teachers in Volhynia
To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=Dr2kCBX3PSf3unoougHkTt2xSkiG4jOPio8DP at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
There is something interesting about my great-grandfather that I don't have
much information about instead the word of mouth.
Johann N?renberg was a teacher on his whole life, and accordingly to family
memories he used to teach Jews around the place as a volunteer.
When he moved to Brazil in 1908, aged 48, he was still a teacher on the
German villages hes passed, and my grandmother said that her and her family
would be surprised on how the German dialect was harsh for them, even from
other people coming from Russia. That makes me wonder about what kind of
life they had in Volhynia to feel like that. They were cloth-makers as well.
All I could find is that his son also became a teacher, and I could find a
questionnaire register from him in Brazil.
Is there any records available from the scholar side around Volhynia?
Second question is, Johann N?renberg also was a scrivener/registrar for the
Russian Army. Does it mean he tried to be a Russian subject to don't lose
their land? Their emigration was quite late (1908). Any place of research?
Third and final question is, on his death record in 1927 on the church book
in Brazil, there are some words that I could not read (written in German),
but I think aside his name is "lehrer". Could someone please give it a try
and see if you can read it?
http://www.genbrazil.com/images/Johann_death_record.JPG
Regards
Mauricio
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 13:02:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: LINDASUSAK at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teachers in Volhynia
To: Mauricio Norenberg <mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com>
Cc: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID:
<1125407345.2210190.1286110978522.JavaMail.root at sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.c
omcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ja, he was a Lehrer (teacher) and in the last space, it says "lange Jahre
Lehrer" (teacher for many, many years)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mauricio Norenberg" <mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com>
To: "GPV List" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2010 2:36:19 AM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teachers in Volhynia
There is something interesting about my great-grandfather that I don't have
much information about instead the word of mouth.
Johann N?renberg was a teacher on his whole life, and accordingly to family
memories he used to teach Jews around the place as a volunteer.
When he moved to Brazil in 1908, aged 48, he was still a teacher on the
German villages hes passed, and my grandmother said that her and her family
would be surprised on how the German dialect was harsh for them, even from
other people coming from Russia. That makes me wonder about what kind of
life they had in Volhynia to feel like that. They were cloth-makers as well.
All I could find is that his son also became a teacher, and I could find a
questionnaire register from him in Brazil.
Is there any records available from the scholar side around Volhynia?
Second question is, Johann N?renberg also was a scrivener/registrar for the
Russian Army. Does it mean he tried to be a Russian subject to don't lose
their land? Their emigration was quite late (1908). Any place of research?
Third and final question is, on his death record in 1927 on the church book
in Brazil, there are some words that I could not read (written in German),
but I think aside his name is "lehrer". Could someone please give it a try
and see if you can read it?
http://www.genbrazil.com/images/Johann_death_record.JPG
Regards
Mauricio
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