[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 18
Bruceb2332
bruceb2332 at aol.com
Fri Oct 1 10:39:42 PDT 2010
It was my error to say that Kamalouka was destroyed during
WW!!
It wasn't Kamalouka tthat was destroyed it was Elizabethpol.Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Sinbcerely, Bruce Braun
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 18
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16 (Bruceb2332)
2. Re: Land questions for Volhynia (William Remus)
3. Land questions for Volhynia (Mauricio Norenberg)
4. Grenke and Fritz (J GRENKE)
5. Re: Grenke and Fritz (Richard Stein)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:27:33 -0400
From: Bruceb2332 <bruceb2332 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88,
Issue 16
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <8CD2E23800CE27A-BAC-14A2 at webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Also, my mother's cousin, max, told me the original spelling of KNull was Knoll.
That is why there is a discrepancy, My gransmother's brother, Edmund, who died
during ww11, changed his spelling back to knoll. Please help me if you can. I
am not regularly at a computer, as ours is broken, so please be patient with me.
Thank you so very much.
I went to Elizabethpol and Kamalouka in 1996 when I visited Ukraine on a
Lutheran mission trip. It was a big thrill for me, although I was very
disappointed to find out that Kamalouka had been completely detroyed in WW!!.
There is a field there that is a memorial tribute to the town that used to be
there. Kamalouka is where my Grandmother's father, August Knull, was a teacher.
He is buried in an unmarked cemetery there.
Thank you again.
Bruce Brun
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:00 pm
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16
Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Knoll/Knull and Buelow (Rose Ingram)
2. Reminder about Digest Messages (Jerry Frank)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:11:04 -0700
From: "Rose Ingram" <roseingram at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Knoll/Knull and Buelow
To: <BruceB2332 at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <002001cb5eba$c9b0db50$6501a8c0 at duocore>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bruce
How are Konstantin and Emma related?
Do you have any death records for these two?
Rose Ingram
From: BruceB2332 at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:14 PM
I AM trying to research a family of konstantin knoll who emigrated to
vancouver british columbia. any help you could give me would be greatly
appreciated. my gRANDMOTHER WAS EMMA NEE KNULL BUELOW.
SHE WAS BORN IN ELIZABETHPOL IN 1891,
THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP.
SINCERELY, BRUCE BRAUN
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:56:46 -0600
From: Jerry Frank <GPVListAdmin at shaw.ca>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Reminder about Digest Messages
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <cfff899f9102e.4ca1212e at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
We generally have very few problems with our system but this one keeps coming up
time after time so the reminders may have to get more frequent.
Please - to all of you that use the digest method to receive mail:
When you are responding to a digest message, please do two things.
1.? Change the subject line to something relevant to the message you are
responding to.? A subject line that references the Digest Format is meaningless
and too long for most of our readers.
2.? Delete all the non relevant postings that are included in the digest
message.? Leave only the one you are answering or relating to.? Our automated
system restricts the size of messages as one way to prevent posting of html,
pictures, or other possible spam related materials.? If you leave all the
messages in the posting, it:
a) means that readers have to sort through all of them to figure out what you
are writing about
b) your message gets trapped by our system as being too long and I end up having
to release it manually to the system
Thank you.
Jerry Frank
List Administrator
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End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:34:58 -1000
From: William Remus <remus at hawaii.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Land questions for Volhynia
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <fc6293ce109d3.4ca33272 at hawaii.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
My people arrived in Faustindorf Volhynia in 1833. At that time their
contractual arrangement was that they had to clear the land (and the nearby
river bed) to make way for growing flax. The contract was with the local
nobility. They had free land use for up to 5 years to develop the land and
thereafter an annual rent. The land was and still is very sandy and suitable for
flax and not much else. (They were clothmakers) as were many in the 1833
migration.
By 1855, they found this unsatisfactory and purchased land in Doliwa later
Romansdorf in the next parish, Kiev parish. This was an expansion of an existing
village (Doliwa) and so did require land clearing in a forested region. This was
good black soil land and was not adjacent to a river. They did diversified ag
and not just flax. The eldest son retained the Romansdorf land but younger
descendants of those that moved contracted the purchase of additional land in
nearby areas. Such sister villages included Grunwald, Malin, and Ludwigsdorf.
These purchases were individual purchases but the individuals were all related
so all purchases were linked. It was like most of Faustindorf moved to
Romansdorf. So they moved like a village. The villages above were street
villages (dorfstrasse) with the homes close to each other on the road and the
fields some distance from the village. The farming land was laid out in strips
so it could be plowed with only a few turn arounds of the heavy Prussian plow.
The school/chapel was at the center of Romansdorf as was a common area for
grazing animals.
The houses were made of logs that were weatherproofed with mud or clay. The
roofs were thatched so could catch fire and burn the house down. The house was
half for people and half for the animals. The one room for people was a
combination living room, kitchen, and bedroom. It was desirable to have the
stoves outside to avoid house fires. Such houses are still in use in Romansdorf.
When they left in 1892, they were able to sell the land to other Germans. They
used that money to buy tickets to North America and also to buy some land in
North America.
regards Bill
family names from Volhynia include Hofffmann, Lehmann, Spitzer, Radke, Remus,
Will, Minge, & Krassin
********************************************************************
William Remus
Emeritus Professor of Information Technology Management
2404 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96822
Telephone: 808-956-7608 office 808-737-5470 home
Bill's homepage http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/
Bill's genealogy http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/genes/
********************************************************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:50:57 +1300
From: Mauricio Norenberg <mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Land questions for Volhynia
To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimAa-JKd4qC3gAQBxc6y6govkLuQ6HtXwGRWMe- at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I wonder if that good historical information you got is all by research or
was it something from your family memories?
I would like to have the same information about my family but all I know is
that my ancestor Johann Norenberg was born next to Petrikau, then moved to
Volhynia to then emigrate to Brazil in 1908 and I have no clue on why and
how they did it.
regards
On 30 September 2010 11:34, William Remus <remus at hawaii.edu> wrote:
> My people arrived in Faustindorf Volhynia in 1833. At that time their
> contractual arrangement was that they had to clear the land (and the nearby
> river bed) to make way for growing flax. The contract was with the local
> nobility. They had free land use for up to 5 years to develop the land and
> thereafter an annual rent. The land was and still is very sandy and suitable
> for flax and not much else. (They were clothmakers) as were many in the 1833
> migration.
>
> By 1855, they found this unsatisfactory and purchased land in Doliwa later
> Romansdorf in the next parish, Kiev parish. This was an expansion of an
> existing village (Doliwa) and so did require land clearing in a forested
> region. This was good black soil land and was not adjacent to a river. They
> did diversified ag and not just flax. The eldest son retained the Romansdorf
> land but younger descendants of those that moved contracted the purchase of
> additional land in nearby areas. Such sister villages included Grunwald,
> Malin, and Ludwigsdorf.
>
> These purchases were individual purchases but the individuals were all
> related so all purchases were linked. It was like most of Faustindorf moved
> to Romansdorf. So they moved like a village. The villages above were street
> villages (dorfstrasse) with the homes close to each other on the road and
> the fields some distance from the village. The farming land was laid out in
> strips so it could be plowed with only a few turn arounds of the heavy
> Prussian plow. The school/chapel was at the center of Romansdorf as was a
> common area for grazing animals.
>
> The houses were made of logs that were weatherproofed with mud or clay. The
> roofs were thatched so could catch fire and burn the house down. The house
> was half for people and half for the animals. The one room for people was a
> combination living room, kitchen, and bedroom. It was desirable to have the
> stoves outside to avoid house fires. Such houses are still in use in
> Romansdorf.
>
> When they left in 1892, they were able to sell the land to other Germans.
> They used that money to buy tickets to North America and also to buy some
> land in North America.
>
> regards Bill
>
> family names from Volhynia include Hofffmann, Lehmann, Spitzer, Radke,
> Remus, Will, Minge, & Krassin
>
> ********************************************************************
> William Remus
> Emeritus Professor of Information Technology Management
> 2404 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96822
> Telephone: 808-956-7608 office 808-737-5470 home
> Bill's homepage http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/
> Bill's genealogy http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/genes/
> ********************************************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 07:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: J GRENKE <jgrenke2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Grenke and Fritz
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <875881.83050.qm at web33408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have recordsfroom SGGEE MPD?for Justine Fritz married to August Grenke from
Lubsin, Radziejow, Kujawsko-Pomorskie, Poland
and St. Petersburg notes on Justine Friss and August Grenke in Volhynia.
Family notes and hear say Justine and August were from Russia.
My first question is at anytime could his area of Poland once been part of
Germany.
If not would their be reasons why they would say they were from Germany and not
say Poland?
Can Fritz and Friss be the same name in another language?
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:16:16 -0600
From: "Richard Stein" <ra_stein at telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Grenke and Fritz
To: "J GRENKE" <jgrenke2 at yahoo.com>,
<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <FE55ECEA5EA34CE39ABD6EDACBBF7D1E at RichardPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Lubsin is about 20 km north of Sompolno, Poland and from 1815 to WW I it was
in so-called Congress Poland, i.e., the part of Poland that was ruled by
Russia. It was only 15 km from the Prussian border. Starting about 1865,
many Germans from the Sompolno area moved to Volhynia, particularly the
Torczyn area which was in Rozyszcze parish. At the time, Volhynia was also
a province of Russia, so in fact, they were moving within Russia. Between
the world wars, Poland was independent and wester Volhynia, including the
Torczyn area, was in Poland.
I have noted too that there is often confusion about the country in which
people lived. People sometimes tried to put their place of origin in the
present borders, i.e., someone born in Rozyszcze parish before WW I when it
was in Russia, may say later that they were born in Poland because that area
was then part of Poland. I have also seen descendants assume that their
ancestors were born in Germany simply because they were known to be ethnic
Germans, whereas they were acturally born in Poland or Russia.
I suspect that your Justine Fritz and Justine Friss are the same person.
I hope this helps,
Dick Stein
----- Original Message -----
From: "J GRENKE" <jgrenke2 at yahoo.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 8:50 AM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Grenke and Fritz
I have recordsfroom SGGEE MPD for Justine Fritz married to August Grenke
from
Lubsin, Radziejow, Kujawsko-Pomorskie, Poland
and St. Petersburg notes on Justine Friss and August Grenke in Volhynia.
Family notes and hear say Justine and August were from Russia.
My first question is at anytime could his area of Poland once been part of
Germany.
If not would their be reasons why they would say they were from Germany and
not
say Poland?
Can Fritz and Friss be the same name in another language?
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
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