[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Migration to Volhynia

Thu Apr 22 19:54:39 PDT 2010

Hmm.  Not sure what to make of all that, Richard.

Had some private discussions with George in this regard and we concluded that, at the very least, the Germans probably at least assumed that they were covered by some of these special conditions.  However, I also pointed out that my Frank ancestor did a stint in the Russian military BEFORE Alexander III changed the rules so there is still some confusion about exactly what was going on.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Benert <benovich at imt.net>
Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Migration to Volhynia
To: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>, George Shoning <shoning at q.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> Just when we think we've got it nailed down, maybe we 
> haven't.  I'm looking 
> at Mychail Kostiuk's Die deutschen Kolonien in Wolhynien, 
> published recently 
> and (somewhat bewilderingly) translated from Ukrainian into 
> German.  On p. 
> 32 he seems to say that the legal basis for "Russian 
> colonization politics" 
> was the Manifesto of July 22, 1763 of Catherine II, and he 
> implies that it 
> was still in force.  Later it was added to by the Manifesto 
> of Alex. I (Feb. 
> 20, 1804), as if it, too, were still in effect.  Mind you, 
> he does argue 
> that German migration into Volhynia was not carried out by the 
> Russian 
> state, but does imply that the provisions of those Manifestos 
> guided the 
> legalities of settlement.  However, he offers no evidence 
> to support this, 
> so I'm wondering if I'm reading it correctly.  This is not 
> what most of us 
> have assumed.  If anyone has access to this book, I'd 
> appreciate another 
> opinion on what it says on this page.
> 
> Kostiuk mentions a Ukas of Paul I in Sept., 1800, granting 
> privileges to 
> Mennonites coming to Volhynia.  Then he mentions additional 
> privileges 
> granted them by individual landowners.
> On pp. 28-9, he mentions the Polish rebellions of 1831 and 1863, 
> and the 
> influx of Germans into Volhynia that resulted from both.  
> He says that the 
> Russian government, to reward the Germans for their non-
> participation, "paid 
> them back for their loyalty, guaranteed them privileges, helped 
> at the start 
> with financial gifts and privileges, the so-called 
> "skasky"."  What these 
> "skasky" were he does not say.  He only cites an archival 
> source, plus a 
> brochure published in 1910 by a group of Germans opposed to the 
> restrictive 
> land bill then before the Duma, "Concerning the German Settlers 
> in the 
> Government of Volhynia."  (If anyone has access to this 
> brochure, and reads 
> Russian, it would be very nice to discover what "skasky" 
> were).  Kostiuk 
> then mentions that lands confiscated from rebellious Polish 
> nobles were 
> sometimes made available to German settlers, as in 1831 when 
> colonists in 
> Antoniwka and Waldheim received 260 dessiatines.
> 
> Kostiuk also cites a decree of 1868, which required settlers to 
> register 
> with local authorities and took away any tax privileges they may 
> have had, 
> although still leaving them with freedom from military 
> service.  Then he 
> adds that it allowed these settlers any rights they had in the 
> place they 
> had come from (Herkunftsland).  This decree applied to 
> Germans coming from 
> "the Vistula area of the German Reich."  The Ministry of 
> the Interior in 
> 1872 extended these same "decisions" to Germans coming from 
> Poland.  His 
> point here is that to some extent one's status in Volhynia 
> depended on where 
> one had come from.  But the implication that freedom from 
> military service 
> and from taxation had been granted (by someone)  to at 
> least some Germans is 
> clear.  (I think.  Again, if a good reader of German 
> can help with this, 
> please do.  And in any case, freedom from military service 
> was ended in 
> 1874.)  He then goes on to say that, by this decree, 
> registering with the 
> local authorities made German settlers eligible for any other 
> "advantages" 
> (Vorteile) that the authorities would care to give on their own.
> 
> Then Kostiuk jumps back to 1856, when the tsar allowed the 
> Governor General 
> of Kiev, Podolia and Volhynia to help needy foreigners coming 
> from Austria 
> to the tune of no more than 5 Taler (this has little relevance 
> to our folks 
> from Poland and Germany, of course).
> 
> There is more in Kostiuk than I  can convey here, but it is 
> rather 
> haphazardly laid out and I have difficulty figuring out just 
> what he's 
> trying to say.  He implies that the government did help 
> settlers in 
> Volhynia, but exactly how is not evident.  He has a habit 
> of bringing things 
> up and dropping them immediately, without fully explaining 
> them.  Again, if 
> anyone who reads German well can help with this, we'd all benefit.
> 
> Dick B.
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jerry Frank" <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:42 PM
> To: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
> Cc: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Migration to Volhynia
> 
> > The statement is correct for those colonists who came to 
> Russia under the 
> > promises of Catherine II and Alexander I.  Their 
> manifestos and decrees 
> > were very specific about who they applied to - not just 
> Germans but all 
> > Europeans who entered Russia under those conditions.  
> However, none of the 
> > Volhynian Germans (not even the Mennonites) came into Volhynia 
> under the 
> > regulations and promises of these two monarchs.  They 
> were not protected 
> > by the royal promises that were made.
> >
> > Browsing through Chapter XII, Broken Promises Spark 
> Emigration, of your 
> > referenced quote, you will see that the concept of broken 
> promises is 
> > specifically directed only to Volga and Black Sea 
> Germans.  Volhynia 
> > Germans are only mentioned in passing as part of the migration 
> to North 
> > America.
> >
> > Also, quoting the same source, "The settlement here [Volhynia] 
> arose not 
> > as a result of the initiative of the Russian government but 
> due to the 
> > Polish landlords in the region.  These invited in German 
> peasants from 
> > time to time and leased to them parts of their extensive 
> undeveloped lands 
> > to be brought under cultivation.  The settlers here 
> received no help from 
> > the crown and were free from the supervision imposed on German 
> settlers 
> > elsewhere in Russia.  They came at their own expense, 
> obtained long-term 
> > leases on land, cleared it, drained it, and made it productive."
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:44 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Migration to Volhynia
> > To: lloydfriedrick at telus.net, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> >
> >>
> >> >From Adam Giesinger's from Catherine to Khrushchev:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "For the German coloists, however, the law of 1874 
> represented a
> >> breach of faith, a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise
> >> made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by
> >> Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813.  They were now
> >> subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and
> >> they were very unhappy about it." - P.227
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> George Shoning
> >>
> >> > From: lloydfriedrick at telus.net
> >> > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> >> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:16:17 -0700
> >> > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Migration to Volhynia
> >> >
> >> > This latest discussion of the German Migration to Volhynia has
> >> been very informative to me. I enjoy it.
> >> >
> >> > There is another line of myths that have been mentioned at
> >> various times, I would appreciate commentary.
> >> >
> >> > This is the story that many of these new immigrants had been
> >> promised that they could retain their culture and religious
> >> affiliation.> Also, that they were not subject to serve in the
> >> Russian military.
> >> >
> >> > I suspect that these promises were not an official policy but
> >> misconceptions handed down to us by our forbearers as hearsay.
> >> >
> >> > I await
> >> >
> >> > lloyd friedrick on Vancouver Island
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> 
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