[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans Migrating to Volynia

Tue Apr 20 07:19:26 PDT 2010

Thanks for the additional clarification, Richard.

I have seen Catherine being given credit for migration of Germans to Prussia and to Galicia, regions that have never been under Russian control.  I'm not sure why the myth is so often misapplied.  I suspect there may be two reasons.

1.  Though Catherine's Manifesto (invitation to settlement) was simply a historical political action applied to all Europeans (not just Germans), the Germans for whom it does apply seem to take exceptional pride in this connection to royalty by their ancestors.  Without taking the time to understand the full historical context of German migration into Russia, they assume that the Manifesto applies to everyone.  When they come in contact with other Germans from Russia, they relate this history to the newcomer who in turn accepts it as fact.

2.  Many newer genealogists do not take the time to fully understand the historical and geographical contexts of their ancestral migrations.  They may assume, for example, that their Irish ancestor came to North America because of the potato famine without actually confirming that the date of the migration corresponds with the time of the famine.  Just as some people quickly accept a variety of urban myths spread on the Internet, some genealogists accept historical comments given to them without exploring their voracity.

People who do this are not "bad" genealogists.  I too gave credence to the Catherine story for Volhynians until I discovered that she had died long before the German migration to Volhynia took place.  These genealogists must simply take the time to understand that genealogy is more than dates and places and that they should take some time to explore the true historical and geographical context of their ancestral migrations.  I'm glad to be of help in the teaching process.

Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Benert <benovich at imt.net>
Date: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans Migrating to Volynia
To: SGGEE Mail List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>

> Hats off to Jerry once again for so graciously continuing his 
> struggle 
> against the myth that all Germans went to Russia because of 
> Catherine II's 
> invitation.  I wish I knew why this myth continues to be so 
> widespread. 
> Could it be something Freudian?  Be that as it may, there 
> is one thing that 
> should be added to what Jerry said.  A FEW Germans 
> did  not settle along the 
> Volga in the 1760s.  They all went through St. Petersburg, 
> but a few stayed 
> in that area.  This was pointed out by Adam Giesinger in 
> "From Catherine to 
> Krushchev," on pp. 90ff ( a book which we should all keep at our 
> elbows.). 
> Also a few colonies were established at a place called Jamburg 
> (which 
> Giesinger confusingly locates both on the Dnieper and the Luga 
> Rivers), and 
> at Hirschenhof, not too far from Riga.  So it's not quite 
> true to say that 
> Catherine attracted Germans ONLY to the Volga.
> 
> Now I must beg Otto's indulgence to comment on a couple of 
> things he said. 
> Historians have had many disagreements about the origins of 
> serfdom in 
> Western Europe, but I think it is commonly agreed that, while 
> the word, 
> "serf," is related to the Latin word, "servus," a serf was not a 
> slave.  He 
> may have been bound to the soil, and was sometimes badly treated 
> by the lord 
> of the manor, but he was usually "personally free."  
> Perhaps Otto's use of 
> the word "modified" covers this.  But I would question the 
> use of the word, 
> "chattel," and the idea that landlords "owned" their 
> serfs.  Otto, could you 
> point out your sources for these assertions?  This is a 
> very complex 
> subject, and what you say may be true in some cases.  There 
> were indeed 
> slaves still existing in the early Middle Ages, but they were 
> distinguished 
> from serfs.
> 
> Central and Eastern Europe certainly became strongholds of 
> serfdom (not 
> feudalism, see below), but only after the Middle Ages, at a time 
> when it was 
> disappearing from Western Europe.  I think the consensus 
> nowadays is that it 
> really became systematic in Russia only in the 17th 
> century.  It had existed 
> in Russia since the late Middle Ages, but there was always a 
> safety valve, 
> in that a serf could leave and settle elsewhere (in the fall, if 
> his debts 
> were paid).  During the 17th century this ability to move 
> away was taken 
> away, which pleased the nobility no end.  This again is a 
> complicated 
> subject, and one can find conditions of dependency in medieval 
> (Kievan) 
> Russia, as I suppose everywhere where centralized government is 
> lacking and 
> "little people" needing protection submit themselves to someone 
> more 
> powerful in the neighborhood.  When to call it "serfdom" is 
> partly a matter 
> of definition.
> 
> Most historians, I think, distinguish between manorialism (with 
> its serfdom) 
> and feudalism.  Feudalism is system of personal relations 
> between freemen, 
> cemented by oaths of loyalty and a contractual agreement binding 
> on both 
> lords and vassals.  Serfs were not freemen, and were not 
> technically part of 
> the feudal system, except for being its economic backbone.  
> I guess some 
> Russian historians have argued that Russia had some kind of 
> feudal system, 
> but I think that most of them say it didn't.  As I 
> understand it, this is 
> largely because the Russian autocracy was so top-heavy that any 
> "agreement" 
> between the tsar and a noble was considered not a contract but a 
> grant of 
> privilege to the nobleman, usually in exchange for some service 
> to be 
> performed, and it could be withdrawn at the tsar's whim.  
> The nobleman had 
> no such power, and I think this is why we can't call Russian 
> nobles 
> "vassals" in the western sense.  This has great 
> implications for how 
> government in Western Europe developed in ways unknown and 
> impossible in 
> Russia.  Feudalism caused western kings to be limited, a 
> condition no 
> self-respecting Tsar could accept and the Russian nobility had 
> no power to 
> enforce.
> 
> As for Russian peasants, Otto is right on in pointing out that, 
> outside of 
> serfdom, many of them were less secure than under it.  That 
> is one reason 
> they sometimes hankered after German-owned land.
> 
> With apologies for the length of this...   And, Otto, 
> please jump on me if 
> I'm wrong about any of this!
> 
> Dick Benert
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Otto" <otto at schienke.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:32 PM
> To: "joepessarra" <joepessarra at suddenlink.net>
> Cc: "GPV List" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans Migrating to Volynia
> 
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2010, at 7:36 PM, joepessarra wrote:
> >
> >> " 1861: Tsar Alexander II granted freedom to serfs, the 
> peasants who
> >> worked
> >> for large farms. As a result, some of the nobility started selling
> >> land, and
> >> a large-scale migration of Germans into the area took place.”
> >>
> >> Joe in Texas
> >
> >
> > One must be specific in differentiating between the term 
> "serf" and
> > "peasant."
> > Only the serfs could be given their freedom.
> > A serf was part of a system of slavery. The term serf is 
> derived from
> > the Latin "Servus."
> > A serf was a modified slave under the old Feudal System that 
> grew out
> > of  agricultural slavery in the late Roman Empire and 
> spread through
> > Europe during the 900's ce. Serfs, under law, were classified as
> > "chattel", i.e. cattle, and could be sold or loans obtained on them.
> > Manors formed the basic unit of society at the time and serfs were
> > owned by the nobility. A serf's personal property would revert 
> to the
> > Manor upon death. A noble was responsible for the feeding, 
> health and
> > protection of his serfs. Many nobles lacked what we may consider
> > nobility.
> >
> > Feudal had a stronghold in Central and Eastern Europe.
> >
> > In the census of 1857, 23.1 million serfs existed in Russia.
> > The Russians liked Alexander ll. Need we ask why?
> >
> > Peasants were free people but poor, yet independent. They 
> could sell
> > day labor or needed to rent land from a noble and often times
> > supplement it with free labor. When crops failed they were on their
> > own. When feudalism ended and nobles had to free their serfs, 
> they had
> > to then hire a labor force or rent or sell their land (they in turn
> > were vassals of the royalty).  Many peasants whose only 
> choice had
> > been to rent could now choose to buy their own little acre. Peasants
> > could begin cottage industries or become landless craftsmen
> > specializing in a trade... the little shoemaker or carpenter for
> > example.
> >
> > The two classes are often spoken of disparagingly yet if one 
> was not
> > of the nobility or royalty. . . what remains. . .?
> >
> > At times the peasants would find survival more difficult than the
> > serfs did because they were on their own under the big sky.
> > Jokingly I liken serfs and peasants to todays standards of corporate
> > employees with percs versus self-employment with feast or 
> famine on
> > ones plate.
> >
> > . . .   Otto
> >          " The 
> Zen moment..." wk. of January 01, 2010-
> >                   _____________________________________
> >                   "Satisfaction . . . lurks in the answers."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2820 - Release 
> Date: 04/19/10 
> > 00:31:00
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 