[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames

[Gary Warner]

Lloyd,

In addition to the couple that Rose noted, we also have another couple 
named Hartmann Friedrich and Caroline Kuperstein.   We have not marriage 
data for that couple, but they have a daughter Juliana Friedrich, born 
in 1850 in Dubno, and she marries Johann Marks.  

Based on the couple that Rose found, and also based on the couple that I 
mention above, your data fits in all respects, except for the 1841 birth 
you note for your Hartmann.  Are you sure that his birth year is not 
about 1818?

Gary Warner

Rose Ingram wrote:
> Lloyd,
>
> If you will look in the SGGEE pedigree database, you will see that Hartmann Friedrich (b. 1818) married Caroline Koberstein (b. 1821) in Konstantynow Evangelical church on 14th Jan. 1840.
>
> Is your great grandfather of child of this couple who married a woman with a name similar to his mother?
>
> I'm of the same mind as Jerry, I am suspicious of the translation of your document, or perhaps it was written in a manner different from what we are used to.
>
> Rose Ingram
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Jerry Frank 
>   To: Lloyd Friedrick 
>   Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:44 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
>
>
>   My first thought on the name change is this - was your great grandfather actually named Hartmann Friedrich? Though unusual, I have seen Hartmann as a given name. How reliable is the translation of your document?
>
>   As for Jews, they did not begin to use surnames until mandated to do so by Napoleon in the late 1700s. So neither of your surnames would be classed as common among Jews since they would only have been in existence for 50-60 years. It is far more likely that a Jew adapted or adopted your noted surnames than vice versa.
>
>
>   Jerry
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Lloyd Friedrick <lloydfriedrick at telus.net>
>   Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:29 pm
>   Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
>   To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
>   > My Great Grandfather {Friedrich Hartmann } [born 1841, and 
>   > married in Dubno] used the surname Hartmann. He married Caroline 
>   > Kupferstein. 
>   > 
>   > Were these common Jewish family names at this time ?
>   > 
>   > Strangely, they recorded their children with the surname Friedrich.
>   > 
>   > Lloyd Friedrick on Vancouver's Island, British Columbia
>   > 
>   > 
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