[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing

Wed May 6 00:53:08 PDT 2009

IŽm following the discussion referring the DNA testing with great interest and I completely agree to that what Jutta Dennerlein wrote. 

Kind regards

Vera von Tiedemann

*Von:* "Jutta Dennerlein" <Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de>
*Gesendet:* 06.05.09 09:18:29
*An:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
*Betreff:* Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing

Just to add another thought to the DNA testing discussion:

Since 2006 I get regular requests from companies who sell DNA tests. 
They want to have their link or their banner placed on the 
UpstreamVistula website. They also would appreciate an article about 
DNA-Genealogy on my website - of course with their link on the same page.
For this 'affiliate program' they offer cash for each customer they get 
through these links.
I think they contact each website which has keywords like Genealogy or 
Ahnenforschung on it and it seems to be worth the effort, since there is 
obviously a lot of money and a growing market connected with this.

Of course you will never find a link like this on www.UpstreamVistula.org .

My personal opinion to this issue is, that nobody 'owns' his DNA 
information. It is something we get from our ancestors and we pass on to 
our descendants. Everything we do with this information might affect our 
descendants.
Publishing 'your' DNA information might prevent one of your 
great-grandchildren to get a specific job because of some weaknesses in 
the family DNA. Insurance companies will calculate risks to their 
advantage using the family DNA information. They might even refuse to 
pay if they find out, that you did not inform them about some additional 
risks which you knew of, since you had your DNA tested.

Kind regards

Jutta Dennerlein

www.upstreamvistula.org

Earl.Schultz wrote:
> Gary & Greg and others,
>
> Don't expect major progress with DNA testing but it is worthwhile doing.
> Not enough people have submitted their DNA yet to make progess through the
> many DNA study groups that are available. If there are only 10K-15K people
> in the study, don't expect much. Some of the ones I belong to have less
> than 100 people. In 100 Schultzs around the world, it is not likely that
> we'd be related. However, not getting your DNA tested only delays the time
> when this tool will be a much more valuable.
>
> However, the real value comes when two people researching the same area and
> the same name are tested as in Greg's example. If you find someone
> potentially descended from the same person or the same surname from the same
> area then a DNA test for both people can be invaluable. In my case, finding
> someone from the Netherlands with a 10 generations ago match would be
> striking gold for me because I am back 9 generations already.
>
> The more people who get this done the more valuable it becomes. If I didn't
> know where my Schultz came from but could see DNA results for other Schultzs
> in different areas of Europe, it could help point to the right area.
>
> Just don't expect genealogical type results early on. I've compared results
> with several other cousins from my ancestral area and we are not closely
> matched because y-DNA provides only the direct male line, Schultz for me,
> and mtDNA provides only the direct maternal line (and because of names
> changes each generation is very difficult to utilize). My cousins are
> related on other lines and not on these two lines.
>
> And as for the value of DNA testing versus the hard genealogical records
> that we collect and take as proof, it is only accurate if a) the females did
> not stray from the marital bed and b) the documents were not falsified as is
> the case for my grandmother who was adopted but all the church and state
> records for her give her adopted parents, not her real parents. I'll take
> the 95% accuracy of DNA anytime. With regard to my grandmother, a match on
> my maternal DNA may be the only way for me to confirm my true ancestry.
> Although I do know the family that she came from, I am unable to get any
> proof other than circumstantial.
>
> Earl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
> From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Gary: You have raised a very important question and one about which I 
> can speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience. For 30 
> years I had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal 
> line. About 5 years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y 
> DNA research (and establishment of a study group) which led to 
> breaking that brick wall and "confirming" what I had suspected for 
> many years. My suspicions were based on circumstantial evidence; 
> fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to a person whom 
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather. With the 
> results of 67 marker Y DNA testing, together with detailed historical 
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, 
> I am now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% 
> assurance. Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a 
> "concrete evidence" which "proves" my lineage. I'll take my 
> circumstantial evidence, our lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% 
> assurance and stack it up against most of the results I have seen in 
> recent years that passes for "genealogical research." My surname 
> lineage and this testing story do not relate to the SGGEE data bases, 
> (which are rather on my wife's lineage) but I am responding to your 
> comment because I believe you have raised an important point and one 
> that most researchers must ultimately deal with as they make a 
> decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially 
> YDNA. I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA 
> testing, especially without the detailed paper trails. Thanks for 
> raising this question. Greg Mason
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
> 
>> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
>> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
>> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
>> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
>> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
>> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of 
>> interest as the subject for a cocktail discussion, if that is all 
>> DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is 
>> still limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
>> assumptions were disproved? If so, were they something more than 
>> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major 
>> change in your research?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hello Greg:
> What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
> search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
> came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
> several.
> Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
> grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
> further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
> research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> Mason
> Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
>
>
> Gary: You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
> speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience. For 30 years I
> had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line. About 5
> years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
> establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
> "confirming" what I had suspected for many years. My suspicions were based
> on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
> a person whom 
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather. With the 
> results of 67 marker Y DNA testing, together with detailed historical
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
> now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
> Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
> which "proves" my lineage. I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
> lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
> of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
> research." My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
> SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage) but I am
> responding to your comment because I believe you have raised an important
> point and one that most researchers must ultimately deal with as they make
> a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
> I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
> especially without the detailed paper trails. Thanks for raising this
> question. Greg Mason
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
> 
>> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
>> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
>> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
>> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
>> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
>> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
>> as the subject for a cocktail discussion, if that is all DNA testing 
>> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
>> assumptions were disproved? If so, were they something more than 
>> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
>> in your research?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
>> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
>> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
> 14:23:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
> From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the 
> following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest 
> for farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, 
> both of whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol
> DYS 19a 14,
> DYS 19b-,
> DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II 30, DYS 390 
> 23, DYS 391 11,
> DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15, DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, 
> DYS 441 14,
> DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS 446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, 
> DYS 449 29,
> DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455 11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, 
> DYS 459b 10,
> DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12, DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15, DYS 464b 
> 15, DYS 464c 16,
> DYS 464d 17, DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 
> 23, GATA A10 14,
> DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
> **************************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> 

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv