[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
Nelson Itterman
colnels at telus.net
Tue May 5 15:35:23 PDT 2009
I very much appreciate your advice.
Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Earl.Schultz
Sent: May-05-09 1:41 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
Gary & Greg and others,
Don't expect major progress with DNA testing but it is worthwhile doing.
Not enough people have submitted their DNA yet to make progess through the
many DNA study groups that are available. If there are only 10K-15K people
in the study, don't expect much. Some of the ones I belong to have less
than 100 people. In 100 Schultzs around the world, it is not likely that
we'd be related. However, not getting your DNA tested only delays the time
when this tool will be a much more valuable.
However, the real value comes when two people researching the same area and
the same name are tested as in Greg's example. If you find someone
potentially descended from the same person or the same surname from the same
area then a DNA test for both people can be invaluable. In my case, finding
someone from the Netherlands with a 10 generations ago match would be
striking gold for me because I am back 9 generations already.
The more people who get this done the more valuable it becomes. If I didn't
know where my Schultz came from but could see DNA results for other Schultzs
in different areas of Europe, it could help point to the right area.
Just don't expect genealogical type results early on. I've compared results
with several other cousins from my ancestral area and we are not closely
matched because y-DNA provides only the direct male line, Schultz for me,
and mtDNA provides only the direct maternal line (and because of names
changes each generation is very difficult to utilize). My cousins are
related on other lines and not on these two lines.
And as for the value of DNA testing versus the hard genealogical records
that we collect and take as proof, it is only accurate if a) the females did
not stray from the marital bed and b) the documents were not falsified as is
the case for my grandmother who was adopted but all the church and state
records for her give her adopted parents, not her real parents. I'll take
the 95% accuracy of DNA anytime. With regard to my grandmother, a match on
my maternal DNA may be the only way for me to confirm my true ancestry.
Although I do know the family that she came from, I am unable to get any
proof other than circumstantial.
Earl
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Gary: You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience. For 30 years I
had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line. About 5
years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
"confirming" what I had suspected for many years. My suspicions were based
on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
a person whom
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather. With the
results of 67 marker Y DNA testing, together with detailed historical
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
which "proves" my lineage. I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
research." My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage) but I am
responding to your comment because I believe you have raised an important
point and one that most researchers must ultimately deal with as they make
a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
especially without the detailed paper trails. Thanks for raising this
question. Greg Mason
On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest
> as the subject for a cocktail discussion, if that is all DNA testing
> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or
> assumptions were disproved? If so, were they something more than
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change
> in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hello Greg:
What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
several.
Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
Mason
Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
Gary: You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience. For 30 years I
had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line. About 5
years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
"confirming" what I had suspected for many years. My suspicions were based
on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
a person whom
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather. With the
results of 67 marker Y DNA testing, together with detailed historical
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
which "proves" my lineage. I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
research." My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage) but I am
responding to your comment because I believe you have raised an important
point and one that most researchers must ultimately deal with as they make
a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
especially without the detailed paper trails. Thanks for raising this
question. Greg Mason
On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest
> as the subject for a cocktail discussion, if that is all DNA testing
> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or
> assumptions were disproved? If so, were they something more than
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change
> in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the
following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest for
farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, both of
whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol DYS 19a
14, DYS 19b-, DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II
30, DYS 390 23, DYS 391 11, DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15,
DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, DYS 441 14, DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS
446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, DYS 449 29, DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455
11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, DYS 459b 10, DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12,
DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15, DYS 464b 15, DYS 464c 16, DYS 464d 17,
DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 23, GATA A10 14,
DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22
------------------------------
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