[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tatars

[Richard Benert]

Another example would be one of the eyewitness accounts of the Deportation 
of 1915 which repeatedly refers to the "Cossacks and Bolsheviks" who rounded 
up the Volhynian colonists and expelled them.  Well, maybe some of the 
chasers were actual Cossacks, but obviously the Bolsheviks got injected into 
the memory of those terrible times and took their place as symbols of 
wrongdoing, even though it would be 2 1/2 years before they appeared in 
Volhynia.
Dick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Frank" <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
To: "Richard Benert" <benovich at imt.net>; "'SGGEE Mail List'" 
<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tatars


> As I mentioned, I have no hard evidence (no examples) to back up my ideas. 
> It's just that historically, both of these "tribes" were generally in what 
> is now the eastern part of Ukraine.  Therefore, stories of Cossack raids 
> or similar events in Volhynia or even Russian Poland don't make sense to 
> me.  I'm sure that raids occurred and that the people referred to the 
> soldiers / hooligans / thugs etc. as Cossacks.  I guess I'm not convinced 
> that they really were Cossacks.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10:27 AM 29/09/2007, Richard Benert wrote:
>>I was very surprised when Alice told me about the Tatars in the Baptist 
>>church, and I asked her if it was really true, and, to the best of my 
>>memory, she confirmed it.  I, too, am dubious, for all the reasons 
>>offered. But Alice was speaking of the early Soviet period--the 1920s.  It 
>>is possible that some group of Tatars fled from somewhere in the Civil War 
>>and wound up in Volhynia.  And perhaps the government had something to do 
>>with their using the Baptist church???  There's lots we don't know, eh?  I 
>>wish I had asked Alice (Deblitz) Baumbach about this.  She remembered just 
>>about everything.
>>
>>Your impression that "Tatar" and "Cossack" were terms that got applied to 
>>Ukrainians in general is interesting, Jerry.  Can you recall any specific 
>>examples of this?
>>
>>Dick
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Frank" <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
>>To: "'Richard Benert'" <benovich at imt.net>; "'SGGEE Mail List'" 
>><ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:34 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tatars
>>
>>
>>>Nelson is correct.  It does seem illogical that a Christian church in 
>>>that time and place would allow use by Muslims or that in fact Muslims 
>>>would want to use their church.  I am also not convinced that there would 
>>>be any significant community of Tatars living in that region.
>>>
>>>I get the impression that many of our ancestors referred to the local 
>>>Ukrainian population as either Cossaks or Tatars.  I'm not sure why that 
>>>was.  From reading the history of Cossaks and Tatars, there seems to be 
>>>no evidence for them being in the Volhynian region.  It seems that the 
>>>term evolved to be applied to any of the local populace - perhaps to the 
>>>those of lowest social status such as gypsies and bands of thugs that 
>>>would raid a village from time to time.  These are just some thoughts 
>>>with little hard evidence to back them up.
>>>
>>>Apparently Tatar is the more correct term but Tartar is an accepted 
>>>alternate.  See http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-584107/Tatar
>>>
>>>
>>>Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
>>>FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 05:42 PM 28/09/2007, Nelson Itterman wrote:
>>>>This does not seem possible, Dick. I understand the they were muslims, 
>>>>which
>>>>would be in conflict with Christianity.
>>>>Nelson
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
>>>>[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>Richard
>>>>Benert
>>>>Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:32 PM
>>>>To: SGGEE Mail List
>>>>Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tatars
>>>>
>>>>My late cousin, Alice Buchholz of Creston, B.C., told me several years 
>>>>ago
>>>>that the Baptist Church in Neudorf was used (rented?) periodically for
>>>>services by Tatars.
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone any knowledge of Tatars living in Volhynia, like where and 
>>>>how
>>>>many?
>>>>
>>>>And why in heaven's name can't it be decided whether to call them Tatars 
>>>>or
>>>>Tartars?
>>>>
>>>>Dick Benert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
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>>>
>>
>
> Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
> FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
>
>
>
> -- 
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