[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Walter sounding like Voltaire?
Rachael Patterson
patterson.rachael at gmail.com
Tue Oct 30 15:38:40 PDT 2007
Hello,
I have a lineage background with the name sounding like "Voltaire" family
lore, but have always suspected that it was actually spelled like
"Walter"...Can anyone shed some extra light on this possibility?
Many thanks,
Rachael Patterson
Calgary, AB, CANADA
On 10/30/07, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org <
ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Polish for Wolter? (Rose Ingram)
> 2. Re: Polish for Wolter? (MIKE MCHENRY)
> 3. Re: Polish for Wolter? (Otto)
> 4. Anybody ever see the surname Ratt? (Karl Krueger)
> 5. Anybody ever see the surname Ratt? Taron (Otto)
> 6. Polish for Wolter? (Rose Ingram)
> 7. Anybody ever see the surname Ratt? (Rose Ingram)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:01:53 -0700
> From: Rose Ingram <roseingram at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish for Wolter?
> To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <00a301c81aa9$9b691710$30734718 at duocore>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Does anyone know if there is a Polish alternative for the surname Wolter?
>
> Rose Ingram
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:49:11 -0400
> From: "MIKE MCHENRY" <maurmike1 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish for Wolter?
> To: "'Rose Ingram'" <roseingram at shaw.ca>, "'GPV List'"
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <01ad01c81aea$e40e9710$ac2bc530$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Rose
> I found this http://www.behindthename.com/name/walter
>
>
> MIKE
>
> maurmike1 at verizon.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Rose
> Ingram
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:02 AM
> To: GPV List
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish for Wolter?
>
> Does anyone know if there is a Polish alternative for the surname Wolter?
>
> Rose Ingram
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:32:07 -0400
> From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish for Wolter?
> To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>, Rose Ingram
> <roseingram at shaw.ca>
> Message-ID: <196F84EC-BE60-43E5-AF04-F128B6D1C6CD at schienke.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Morning Rose,
> Wolter-used as a given and surname.
>
> Walter is the anglicized form of the German 'Walther/Waldhar/Waldhari'.
> Wolter/Wouter is the Dutch form of Walther/Walter. A good indicator
> of an earlier migration south from the Danzig coastline.
>
> A Polish variation of the name may contain the term 'Wlod', (rule)
> pronounced 'Vwod' (the L has a diacritical mark through it changing
> the sound to 'W') as in 'Wlodek' > Vwodek'
> ---
> Now if someone could flip me information on the birthplace or
> marriage (Walter/Langas) of my maternal grandfather, Rudolf Walter,
> (b.1878?) wouldn't that be nice...
>
>
> . . . Otto
>
> " The Zen moment..." wk. of October 28, 2007-
> ________________________________
> "Life continues. . . only from breath to breath."
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anybody ever see the surname Ratt?
> To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <933558.91842.qm at web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> After Rose's inquiry about Wolter (Walter) I thought I would throw another
> name in the pot. I recently have seen the name Ratt in two different
> instances from a group that likely had similar origins before moving to
> eastern Poland. In one of these cases Karoline z Ratt (1839) is referred to
> as Karoline z Tarrun (Taron) by the late 1840s and remains as such until her
> death. EWZ records also call her maiden name Taron so the family line only
> remembered her "more recent surname". To make matters more confusing her
> husband was Samuel Taron so on the 1839 record Samuel is still called Taron
> while Karoline is a Ratt (pardon the pun).
>
> If it matters, the name Taron is likely of French Huegenot origin. Anyone
> have any good explanations what is going on here? Did everyone just forget
> her real maiden name or is there something else going on I don't recognize?
>
> PS - other evidence argues against Samuel marrying twice (Ratt and Taron).
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:05:08 -0400
> From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anybody ever see the surname Ratt?
> Taron
> To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <6CD3775D-B611-4A89-B025-B7A36B3ADB6C at schienke.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Afternoon Karl,
> You asked:
> " If it matters, the name Taron is likely of French Huegenot origin.
> Anyone have any good explanations what is going on here? Did everyone
> just forget her real maiden name or is there something else going on
> I don't recognize?"
>
> Maybe I can add to the confusion. . .
>
> Ratt/Radt (wheel) could well be a shortened form of Rattke/Radtke
> (little wheel or offspring of wheel)
>
> Taron/Tarrun remains a challenge.
>
> Your dates of the early mid-1800's connected to name change may make
> the Huguenot identity questionable seeing the Huguenot settlement
> occurred in the 1700's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot
>
> If you pursue the 'French connection', I would give serious attention
> to the beginning of the 1800's and the armies of Napoleon. They were
> not under present day military battlefield confrontations of 'you can
> run, but you cannot hide' satellite observation . Generals back then
> would place their cannoneers behind the infantry and mow them down if
> they tried to flee. To lose 100,000 men to 'the woods' was not
> uncommon. Even mounted cavalry officers found this useful to
> survival. A name change for those who stayed was helpful to living a
> few more years... Saying "Good day" in Polish also helped greatly.
>
> Also, Ratt or Radtke may have been the surname.
> There well could have existed a confusing of Karoline Ratt/Radtke
> from Torun/Thorn with Ratt/Tarrun
>
> etymolgy: this may help in deciphering translations of the term.
> -cut&paste-
> Proto-IE: *taron- <PIH *-rH->
> Slavic: *t[?]ron?, *t?ron?: Kash taro?n, tro?n (Sychta)
> Germanic: *?unr-a- m., *?unr- m. (click)
> Celtic: Gaul (in Lat.) Taranis `thunder god'; Ir torann `thunder,
> thunder god'; Cymr taran id., OCorn taran id., Bret. taran id.
> Russ. meaning: ????, ???-???????????
>
> The name 'Taron' is also of a district in Armenia
> . . . Otto
>
> " The Zen moment..." wk. of October 28, 2007-
> ________________________________
> "Life continues. . . only from breath to breath."
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:04:53 -0700
> From: Rose Ingram <roseingram at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish for Wolter?
> To: Otto <otto at schienke.com>, GPV List
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <004301c81b16$fdac3110$30734718 at duocore>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks to all who responded.
>
> I'm looking at German names in records from Umien Catholic church (a few
> miles north of Dabie), a 1817 birth record shows mother's surname as
> Dywel(owney), although we know her surname is Wolter/Walter.
>
> Maybe this is the scribe's attempt to 'Polonize' the surname - which may
> be a garbled variation of 'Wlodek'
>
> You may remember a short time ago that Dick Stein had difficulties with
> German surname becoming garbled in the Catholic records from area north of
> Sompolno. I think a conspiracy was afoot by the Catholic clergy to garble
> German names, maybe because they were not happy to have Germans move into
> there turg.
>
> Otto, where was Rudolf Walter in his adult years?
>
> Rose Ingram
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Otto
> To: GPV List ; Rose Ingram
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish for Wolter?
>
>
> Morning Rose,
>
> Wolter-used as a given and surname.
>
>
> Walter is the anglicized form of the German 'Walther/Waldhar/Waldhari'.
> Wolter/Wouter is the Dutch form of Walther/Walter. A good indicator of an
> earlier migration south from the Danzig coastline.
>
>
> A Polish variation of the name may contain the term 'Wlod', (rule)
> pronounced 'Vwod' (the L has a diacritical mark through it changing the
> sound to 'W') as in 'Wlodek' > Vwodek'
> ---
> Now if someone could flip me information on the birthplace or marriage
> (Walter/Langas) of my maternal grandfather, Rudolf Walter, (b.1878?)
> wouldn't that be nice...
>
>
>
>
> . . . Otto
>
>
> " The Zen moment..." wk. of October 28, 2007-
> ________________________________
> "Life continues. . . only from breath to breath."
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:15:50 -0700
> From: Rose Ingram <roseingram at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anybody ever see the surname Ratt?
> To: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>, GPV List
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <006201c81b18$853cf9b0$30734718 at duocore>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Karl
>
> It could be a coincidence that Ratt was written by mistake if you take
> into account Tarrun was the spelling used at that time. 'Tarr' to 'Ratt'.
> Or could Ratt have been some sort word used for "ditto" the surname?
> Rose Ingram
> From: Karl Krueger
>
>
> After Rose's inquiry about Wolter (Walter) I thought I would throw another
> name in the pot. I recently have seen the name Ratt in two different
> instances from a group that likely had similar origins before moving to
> eastern Poland. In one of these cases Karoline z Ratt (1839) is referred to
> as Karoline z Tarrun (Taron) by the late 1840s and remains as such until her
> death. EWZ records also call her maiden name Taron so the family line only
> remembered her "more recent surname". To make matters more confusing her
> husband was Samuel Taron so on the 1839 record Samuel is still called Taron
> while Karoline is a Ratt (pardon the pun).
>
> If it matters, the name Taron is likely of French Huegenot origin.
> Anyone have any good explanations what is going on here? Did everyone just
> forget her real maiden name or is there something else going on I don't
> recognize?
>
> PS - other evidence argues against Samuel marrying twice (Ratt and
> Taron).
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
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>
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