[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RES: RES: RES: Help with a marriage register

Sat Jan 6 10:42:59 PST 2007

Ok. I will try to find the correct Janow.

I’m talking with Robert about that too.

He remembered that this family came from Brzeziny according to the wedding
of Andreas Norenberg (Johann’s brother).

It may help to identify the correct Janow.

I’ve selected some coordinates for Janow’s in mapquest, all near Lodz,
Brzeziny, and Piotrkow Trybunalski.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal
<http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=51.7667&l
ongitude=19.5667&size=big> &latitude=51.7667&longitude=19.5667&size=big

The one I think you told me:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal
<http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=52.1833&l
ongitude=21.6667&size=big> &latitude=52.1833&longitude=21.6667&size=big

Others:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal
<http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=52.0500&l
ongitude=21.2833&size=big> &latitude=52.0500&longitude=21.2833&size=big

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal
<http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=51.3833&l
ongitude=22.3833&size=big> &latitude=51.3833&longitude=22.3833&size=big

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=51.3667&lo
ngitude=18.6000&size=big

It will really be hard. But I’m prepared 

Thanks

Mauricio

  _____  

De: Jerry Frank [mailto:FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca] 
Enviada em: sábado, 6 de janeiro de 2007 14:34
Para: Mauricio Nörenberg
Assunto: Re: RES: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RES: Help with a marriage register

For the Alegata, you have to write to the Warsaw Archives indicating what
you require.  You can write in English.  They will write back to you in
Polish indicating the cost of the search.  You must then arrange to get the
money to them and they will then provide the records if available.   It can
take many months, the payment procedure is difficult, you must get a
translation of the Polish response, and, in the end, you may find that there
is no record of value.

Of course you can search Catholic records.  They are usually only helpful in
regions where there was no Lutheran Church or before the Lutheran Church was
established. there.  If you plan to do that, check first to see what is
available through the Mormon Library as they may be available on microfilm.

And finally, remember that we can only guess at the correct Janow.  It is a
very common place name.  I have recommended the most likely two
possibilities but there could be others.

Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca 

At 09:09 AM 06/01/2007, Mauricio Nörenberg wrote:

Hi Jerry.

Thanks for the information.
I’m trying to understand how this research way works (alegata), in the
pradziad.
It works with ordering?
I can research in catholic records too?

Or simply close to the near location to coorect Janow? 

Thanks

  _____  

De: Jerry Frank [ <mailto:FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
mailto:FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca] 
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 5 de janeiro de 2007 11:59
Para: Mauricio Norenberg
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Assunto: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RES: Help with a marriage register

Piotrkow was never part of Germany.  It was always Russia or Poland.

Unfortunately I know of no other research opportunities other than the
Alegata (marriage announcements) for this parish that exist in the Warsaw
Archives - see http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=378 and click on "Database"
in upper right to get to the search page.  While it is possible that
Ferdinand was born in a German State, it is more likely that he was also
born somewhere in Russian Poland.  Even if he was born in a German State, it
would be impossible to find him without knowing the location.  Such
information would only be found in the Piotrkow Parish records.  IFyou could
find the marriage announcement for Ferdinand in the Alegata, it would tell
you where he was born.

Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca 

At 04:39 AM 05/01/2007, Mauricio Norenberg wrote:

Jerry,

Thanks for the help.
Very bad news for the records... it means that i've stopped in the time?
As I can see, there are no records near 1860.
I don't know what I can do now.

Maybe I can research where Ferdinand born. Maybe were born in a German
State?
By the way, Piotrkow was Russian or German in that age? Sorry my
desinformation.

Mauricio

2007/1/5, Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca >:
Unfortunately, there are many Janow in Poland,
several dozen in fact.  The one you are looking
for would be in the Piotrkow province in the
vicinity of Piotrkow Trybunalskie.
There are two possibilities with the most likely 
being located about 16 km NE of that city at about N51/28 E19/54.
The other is about 30 km SE of the city at about N51/17 E20/04.
The bad news in any case is that very few records
for this parish exist.  You can find the list of 
years at http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInRusPoland

Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca 

At 07:43 PM 04/01/2007, Mauricio Nörenberg wrote:
>Thanks!
> 
> 
>Now, i'm looking for where to research for a possible birth register of
>Johann.
> 
>There are a Janow location near Warsaw, is it the same?
> 
>   _____
> 
>De: Karl Krueger [ mailto:dabookk54 at yahoo.com]
>Enviada em: quinta-feira, 4 de janeiro de 2007 16:59 
>Para: Mauricio Norenberg; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>Assunto: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help with a marriage register
> 
> 
> 
>To me it looks like Johann was born in Janow, Gmina Piotrkow (Poland) and
he
>was 27 years old at this time in 1887. His parents were Ferdinand
>Noehrenberg and Caroline Markus. His bride was Julianne Braun (25 years
old) 
>daughter of Wilhelm Braun and Dorothea Gross?? Seems like she was born in a
>town like ?Jasieniec?, near Wladimir (Volhynia) but baptised in some other
>town I can't read.
> 
>Mauricio Norenberg < mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>I was researching for my ggfather marriage, and with help of friends here,
>i've found.
>Diethard and Robert sent me a long time ago, some marriages of brothers of 
>my ggfather Johann Norenberg.
>So, i'm trying to find the birthplace and the birth register of Johann.
> 
>I don't know if it have new information in the marriage, can anyone try to
>read it for me? 