[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 45, Issue 26
asbender at telus.net
asbender at telus.net
Tue Feb 27 07:15:56 PST 2007
To reply to Paul Rakow:
My Nickel family were fron Iwanowitsch near Zhitomir and my mothers family,
Schwarz from Balarka..Dubno, Poland,
Adelheid Bender
Quoting ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. DNA testing (Marcia Momose)
> 2. Re: Berlin Research (Paul Rakow)
> 3. Malowana (Jack Leigh)
> 4. Re: Berlin Research (Mike McHenry)
> 5. Re: DNA testing (Karl Krueger)
> 6. Re: Malowana (Jerry Frank)
> 7. Michalewicz/Tuczek/Henkel/Ruchotski (Carole)
> 8. Re: DNA testing for genealogical roots (MaizieRae at aol.com)
> 9. Re: Grams in Poland RE Villages (Jerry Frank)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:48:36 +0000
> From: "Marcia Momose" <marcia_momose at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <BAY119-F2518877D66D73DBB336F6C93830 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> By "deep" origins, I am speaking about thousands of years as opposed to
> hundreds of years.
> I had the Y-DNA test run on 37 markers for my Riedke and on 12 for the Baum
> lineages.
>
> Also, when I said there were rare mutations, I was not suggesting "special."
>
> "Rare" can mean many things, and when I said rare, I meant that there was no
>
> male in the sampling that was first done to categorize the various I
> Haplogroups who had both the I13 and I14 mutations. Therefore, there is
> possibly another category or subclade that needs to be added. When very few
> people have a mutation, it is considered a "private" mutation, I believe.
>
> Marcia Ritke-Momose
> researching Riedke, Baum, Polsfuss and Bresch
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few
> simple tips.
>
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx
?icid=HMFebtagline
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:28:20 +0100 (CET)
> From: Paul Rakow <rakow at ifh.de>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702262149001.23077 at pub1.ifh.de>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Adelheid,
>
> I think you'll have to give a few more clues about where your
> family lived for more complete advice. Howard mentioned two possible
> archives.
>
> Most of the church-books in the EZAB (Evangelischen Zentralarchiv
> in Berlin) have been microfilmed, and can be borrowed from the Mormons,
> so that might not be the best use of your time.
>
> The Geheimes Staatsarchiv Preussischer Kulturbesitz has government
> documents from Prussia, the Mormons have done some filming, but there
> is also a lot of unfilmed material. If your family was from Prussia,
> and you know where, then that might be a useful place to spend a few
> days. I'm (slowly) writing an article for the SGGEE journal about a
> succesful trip I made to the Geheimes Staatsarchiv last year.
>
> Paul Rakow,
> Former Berliner
> rakow at ifh.de
>
> "Howard Krushel" <krushelh at telus.net> wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
> >
> > Assuming that you are looking for ancestors in eastern Europe, you could
> > check for records at the Evangelischen Zentralarchiv in
> Berlin(www.ezab.de)
> > and at the Geheimes Staatsarchiv, Preussischer
> > Kulturbesitz(www.gsta.spk-berlin.de)
> > Howard Krushel
> >
> Adelheid Bender wrote:
>
> >> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
> >>
> >> I will be leaving for Berlin on business on March 3rd and staying for 2
> >> weeks. While I am there does anyone have any suggestions where I am able
> to
> >> do any family records research.
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:29:20 -0800
> From: Jack Leigh <jack.leigh at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Malowana
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070226122920.00aa39d8 at shawmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> I have lurked on this list for quite a long time now and am continually
> impressed. I belong to many lists and I think that this one has the most
> helpful and knowledgeable people. My own family are from England and
> Scotland, and I am often confused about research related to my wife's
> SCHINDELs from Germany, Poland, and Volhynia.
>
> Younger family members have asked me to share my knowledge of the history
> of my wife's SCHINDELs. As I write it down for them, I find that some
> things I thought I knew aren't so clear as I thought. So here's my first
> questions.
>
> The first emigrant to Canada of my wife's SCHINDEL family was her great
> uncle Jacob (age 22) who left Hamburg aboard the "Hamburg" on January 22,
> 1892. He travelled from Hamburg to Hull to Liverpool to Halifax to
> Winnipeg, and I have all the relevant ships passenger lists (Hamburg,
> Liverpool, Halifax).
>
> The Hamburg passenger list says Jacob and his travelling companions (Johan
> BAKER, Josef and Franz GOLINGER, Heinrich RING, Georg BABER) were from
> "Malowana Russl."
>
> My questions: Would "Malowana" as shown on the Hamburg passenger list be
> the same place as "Wola Malowana?"
>
> How might they have travelled from Malowana to Hamburg?
>
> Over the next many years, Jacob was followed by a great many other
> SCHINDELs, many of whom settled near Melville SK starting about 1903.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give me.
>
> .............. Jack
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:57:41 -0500
> From: "Mike McHenry" <maurmike1 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
> To: "'Paul Rakow'" <rakow at ifh.de>,
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <004f01c759f1$2407f480$6601a8c0 at Mainpc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I would suggest checking to see which church books the Mormons have. In my
> case, Lipno, they were not and I had to request them from Berlin EZAB.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> Rakow
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:28 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
>
>
> Adelheid,
>
> I think you'll have to give a few more clues about where your
> family lived for more complete advice. Howard mentioned two possible
> archives.
>
> Most of the church-books in the EZAB (Evangelischen Zentralarchiv
> in Berlin) have been microfilmed, and can be borrowed from the Mormons,
> so that might not be the best use of your time.
>
> The Geheimes Staatsarchiv Preussischer Kulturbesitz has government
> documents from Prussia, the Mormons have done some filming, but there
> is also a lot of unfilmed material. If your family was from Prussia,
> and you know where, then that might be a useful place to spend a few
> days. I'm (slowly) writing an article for the SGGEE journal about a
> succesful trip I made to the Geheimes Staatsarchiv last year.
>
> Paul Rakow,
> Former Berliner
> rakow at ifh.de
>
> "Howard Krushel" <krushelh at telus.net> wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
> >
> > Assuming that you are looking for ancestors in eastern Europe, you could
> > check for records at the Evangelischen Zentralarchiv in
> Berlin(www.ezab.de)
> > and at the Geheimes Staatsarchiv, Preussischer
> > Kulturbesitz(www.gsta.spk-berlin.de)
> > Howard Krushel
> >
> Adelheid Bender wrote:
>
> >> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Berlin Research
> >>
> >> I will be leaving for Berlin on business on March 3rd and staying for 2
> >> weeks. While I am there does anyone have any suggestions where I am able
> to
> >> do any family records research.
> >>
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:59:48 -0800 (PST)
> From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: Marcia Momose <marcia_momose at hotmail.com>,
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <525895.67930.qm at web55304.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> If you are interested in thousands of years then that is what National
> Geographic's genographic project is studying - the migration patterns of
> humans over history. This will group you with millions of other people having
> similar backgrounds as yours and others where you might have common deep
> ancestral roots.
>
> When you talk about your "rare" mutation has anyone else been found to have
> that variant? If so perhaps there is a "recent" lineage you share (like
> within the last 10 generations) which is just the point of doing these test
> with a genealogical interest. If it is unique then the question becomes when
> did this variant first show up - or more correctly, when did this mutation
> occur? In this case it is possible that it is unique to your family and other
> closely-linked families bearing that Y chromosome.
>
> Just for the record, all the variations you see in any collection of DNA
> markers are truly variations or polymorphisms - they are not mutations.
> Mutations are only when a change in the DNA sequence occurs. At some point
> all variations started as mutations. Because all living species have such
> diversity/individuality it is incorrect to say we are all mutants. Mutation
> can also carry the connotation of a DNA sequence passed down that confers a
> biological or functional consequence, normally deleterious, to the
> individual. For our DNA markers of interest, these are certainly not in this
> category.
>
> Marcia Momose <marcia_momose at hotmail.com> wrote:
> By "deep" origins, I am speaking about thousands of years as opposed to
> hundreds of years.
> I had the Y-DNA test run on 37 markers for my Riedke and on 12 for the Baum
> lineages.
>
> Also, when I said there were rare mutations, I was not suggesting "special."
>
> "Rare" can mean many things, and when I said rare, I meant that there was no
>
> male in the sampling that was first done to categorize the various I
> Haplogroups who had both the I13 and I14 mutations. Therefore, there is
> possibly another category or subclade that needs to be added. When very few
> people have a mutation, it is considered a "private" mutation, I believe.
>
> Marcia Ritke-Momose
> researching Riedke, Baum, Polsfuss and Bresch
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few
> simple tips.
>
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx
?icid=HMFebtagline
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> TV dinner still cooling?
> Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:30:53 -0700
> From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Malowana
> To: Jack Leigh <jack.leigh at shaw.ca>,
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <0JE300HHCLS3JU80 at l-daemon>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Jack,
>
> Maps that I have show the place as either Malowana or Kol.
> Malewanka. There is no Wola shown. There is however a Wygoda just a
> few steps literally NW of Malowana. The village is about 11 km SE of Luck.
>
> Wola is a term that describes a form of village government - the
> Polish equivalent of a Holendry. Whether or not this applied here or
> not I do not know.
>
> Based on the St. Petersburg extractions, it seems that some of these
> men that travelled together may have been related.
>
> Georg Baber is the son of Heinrich B. and Phillipinne Ring. They
> were living in Lipiany (this is almost certainly actually Liplany,
> about 6 km NW of Luck) when he was born.
>
> Also living at Lipiany were a Johann Philip Ring and his wife
> Marianna Schindler (good chance this should be Schindel)
>
> There was also at least one Schindel family in Lipiany, Heinrich S.
> and wife Katherina Schmidt.
>
> Not sure how they hooked up with Golinger as that family lived quite
> a distance away at Lidowka, near Nowograd Wolhynsk.
>
> Could not find any Baker references of value except that one child of
> Heinrich Baber above is listed as a Baker because of a
> misinterpretation by the extractor.
>
>
>
> Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
> FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
>
>
>
>
>
> At 01:29 PM 26/02/2007, Jack Leigh wrote:
>
> >Younger family members have asked me to share my knowledge of the history
> >of my wife's SCHINDELs. As I write it down for them, I find that some
> >things I thought I knew aren't so clear as I thought. So here's my first
> >questions.
> >
> >The first emigrant to Canada of my wife's SCHINDEL family was her great
> >uncle Jacob (age 22) who left Hamburg aboard the "Hamburg" on January 22,
> >1892. He travelled from Hamburg to Hull to Liverpool to Halifax to
> >Winnipeg, and I have all the relevant ships passenger lists (Hamburg,
> >Liverpool, Halifax).
> >
> >The Hamburg passenger list says Jacob and his travelling companions (Johan
> >BAKER, Josef and Franz GOLINGER, Heinrich RING, Georg BABER) were from
> >"Malowana Russl."
> >
> >My questions: Would "Malowana" as shown on the Hamburg passenger list be
> >the same place as "Wola Malowana?"
> >
> > How might they have travelled from Malowana to Hamburg?
> >
> >Over the next many years, Jacob was followed by a great many other
> >SCHINDELs, many of whom settled near Melville SK starting about 1903.
> >
> >Thanks for any help you can give me.
> >
> > .............. Jack
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:41:42 -0500
> From: "Carole" <rschlesselman at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Michalewicz/Tuczek/Henkel/Ruchotski
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000c01c75a10$6f57a560$4bf73d44 at carole01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> My grandmother, Franciska Michalewicz was born January 6, 1881 in Tysmienica,
> Galicia, Austria to Johann Michalewicz and Marie Tuczek. She was German
> Lutheran. I have learned there is a Tysmienca in Poland and also in the
> Ukraine. Where do I search for her records? Franciska married Ludwig Henkel
> who was born in Malinowka, Chelm, Lublin, Poland. I know the Henkel family
> moved to Volhynia - possibly to Lutsk. Ludwig's sister, Sofia, married Alex
> Ruchotski in Volhynia on January 6, 1901. Ludwig and Franciska had 2
> children born in Volhynia - Carl and Marie. Where do I find records for
> Lutsk?
>
> Thank you!
> Carole
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:08:27 EST
> From: MaizieRae at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing for genealogical roots
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <cc6.b8a0bdc.3314faab at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2007 5:11:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> marcia_momose at hotmail.com writes:
>
> Has anyone else used DNA testing in their genealogical research? If so, what
>
>
> were the results?
>
> Dear Marcia,
>
> Although this study was related to my English/Welsh roots and not my German
>
> heritage (my husband is German/Russian--Volhynia & Volga), it was truly
> fascinating. I traveled to England and North Wales with 15 distant cousins,
> all
> of descended from the same John CLOUGH who immigrated to New England from
> London, England, in 1635.
>
> It was always mentioned in oral family history that the CLOUGHs were
> originally Welsh, from Wales, but never proven, until 2001. A family DNA
> study done
> by Oxford Ancestors, the results of which we received while in Oxford,
> England, proved that the male descendants of John CLOUGH of London were
> exactly
> genetically linked to the Cloughs of Denbigh, North Wales. DNA studies are
>
> very useful in connecting families. You can read more about our DNA study
> at:
>
> The Clough/Cluff/Clow Surname Study
>
> _http://ourworld.cs.com/CloughGenL/surnames.html_
> (http://ourworld.cs.com/CloughGenL/surnames.html)
>
> Linda Freehling
> In Volhynia, researching BAKUS/ BACKUS, OTTO, ISCHLER, SKALE/ SKALEE/ SKALA,
>
> HAEMMERLING
> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:15:48 -0700
> From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Grams in Poland RE Villages
> To: Penelope Deib <copperp at telusplanet.net>,
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <0JE400MHPL6XQI00 at l-daemon>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Penny,
>
> Tuczyn and Tutschin are the same place, just variant spellings that
> sound almost identical when pronounced. Tutschin was also a parish
> in later years.
>
> Zhitomir and Shitomir are also the same place. Your family probably
> did not live there. This was the name of the Lutheran Parish that
> served the places where they did live. It was quite far away but the
> parish was very large. See
> http://www.sggee.org/parish_histories/church_history for a link
> providing a diagram as to how and when the parishes developed.
>
> Rowno was also later a parish but it was also a district name so that
> could be the connotation. Rivne is the form as precisely
> transliterated from Russian Cyrillic. Rowno / Rovno is the German form.
>
> Kutozowka is some distance east from Tutschin. Keep in mind that
> some families moved around a lot within Volhynia.
>
> There are at least 3 Kamenka in Volhynia where Germans lived. One of
> these was about 18 km NE of Tutschin so it is probably the one you
> would look for.
>
> A significant number of Germans in Volhynia were cloth makers,
> especially in the early years. As automation entered that market,
> many of these Germans turned to farming. Your Grams family may have
> kept on in that industry. There will be a presentation at this
> year's convention on Germans in the cloth making industry in Russian
> Poland and Volhynia.
>
> When you refer to discrepancy between "2 files", I assume you mean
> between what Ewald provided you and what you are finding in the SGGEE
> databases. Family lore and errors in extractions can contribute to
> errors. The truth, as close as we can ever find it, is in the actual
> church records. You should double check these records to determine
> which dates are accurate.
>
>
> Jerry Frank
>
>
>
>
> At 08:53 AM 26/02/2007, Penelope Deib wrote:
> >Thank you for the helpful responses to my questions as to location of
> >Sobotka and Szczepanow. I am trying to track the movements of our Grams
> >family when they lived in Poland...according to research done by Ewald
> >Wuschke the Andreas Grams family lived in Gramsdorf (Bukowiec), then
> >Sobotka, Nowa Wies, then Szczepanow. Andreas' son Matin Grams married in
> >Szczepanow, his son August 'Wilhelm' Grams (our grt grandfather) moved with
> >the family to Volhynia where he married Pauline Arndt in Zhitomir Parish in
> >1866. In the Odessa Library files and the SGGEE files their children are
> >listed as being born in Tuczyn,Tutschin, Shitomir, Kamenka, Kutazowka, and
> >Rovno...all in Volhynia?? I have found conflicting birthdates and birth
> >places for many of the sixteen children between the two files which is very
> >confusing. Family story is that the Grams operated a woolen mill in the
> >Rovno area and according to one of Wilhelm's daughter's birth record, it
> >says her father was a Tuchmachermeister...master cloth maker. I had found
> >information that said "Rivne, formarly known as Rovno, is this correct?
> >Again, many thanks,
> >Penny in Alberta
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 45, Issue 26
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