[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kaminski ethnicity

Sun Feb 18 04:33:00 PST 2007

Hal and Jan:  I'll try to add a bit to Gary's information.  My  wife  
has  relatives from the Rippen/Ripin/Rypin area, so we have done a a  
bit of research on this subject as well as visited the area in 1994.   
Rypin (the current Polish version of spelling) is both a county and a  
city in north central Poland.  The city, roughly in the center of the  
county, is 44 kilometers east of Torun in the present day province of  
Kujawsko-Pomorskie. (1945-1975 = Bydgoszcz; 1939-1945 = West Prussia;  
1918-1939 = Warszawa Pre 1918 = Plock)  The county is one of two  
counties that made up the area frequently  referred to by the German  
settlers as the Dobriner Land.  There were a significant number of  
ethnic German settlers in Rypin county beginning at least as early as  
the early 1700s and continuing up to the expulsion in 1945.   
(Although some Germans did remain following the end of WWII, they are  
very few in number.) Most of the German settlements in Rypin county  
were along the northern quarter of the county boarding with Prussia.   
Additionally, there were a cluster of German settlements around the  
town of Rypin and extending south into the bordering county of Lipno.  
Generally speaking there were only two Lutheran Parishes in Rypin  
county:  Rypin city and also Michalki, about 7 kilometers north-east  
from the Rypin. If you join SGGEE, you will have access to a wealth  
of information about Russia-Poland (Congress Poland) and also access  
to Jerry Franks excellent maps of the area.  Additionally, the June  
2006 issue of the SGGEE Journal contains a cover story (and pictures)  
about the Lutheran church in Rypin city.  Additionally, there is a  
great article by Earl Schultz about the Photographer's studio in  
Rypin and the back drop that graces the photos of our family members  
who had their portraits made in that studio.  (Perhaps you have some  
also of your family members.)  Additionally, Earl has a mastery of  
knowledge about the Michalki Parish records, which may include your  
family, once you  determine where in Rypin they lived. Another site  
that can give you  good background information about the area is  
"Upstream Vistula":   http://www.upstreamvistula.org/index.htm   Hope  
this is helpful to you and best wishes on your research in Dobriner  
Land.
Greg Mason

On Feb 18, 2007, at 2:46 AM, Gary Warner wrote:

> Hal,
>
> Welcome to our mail list.   I hope you get as much from it as the  
> rest of us.
>
> I am by no means an expert on the subject(s) you raise, but perhaps
> my two cents will start the ball rolling and elicit some more
> discussion from the experts on this list.
>
> You would appear to be on the correct mail list, because the rest of
> us are equally confused by our ancestry, at least the part about
> knowing what to call our ancestors.   I trust I am not stating
> something incorrectly when I say that the rest of the people on this
> list are all related to Germans who lived in Poland or Volhynia
> (essentially the western part of the Ukraine).   Your Kaminski name
> would seem to indicate that you also are German, since according to
> Oskar Kossmann's "Die Deutschen in Polen", printed in 1978, Kaminski
> is the Polish version of the name Koberstein.   This may not be the
> absolutely correct German version of the name, however, since some
> people also think that Steinke is an alternate to
> Kaminski.   Evidently the root of the word Kaminski has some
> equivalence to the German word Stein or Steinke.  Only some detailed
> research by you will enlighten you further about who your ancestors
> really were.   To answer your question about name changes, the answer
> is yes, they did change, but not necessarily for everyone.   It seems
> that they changed when there was an equivalent name in the language
> used where they lived (like Schwarz becoming Czarnecki, since one
> name means black in German ,and the other means black in
> Polish).   Names also changed when the name was difficult to say in
> the language where our ancestors lived, much like they did when our
> ancestors came to North America.
>
> My grandparents were born in Poland and later moved to Volhynia where
> they were married and where their first child was born.    Both of my
> grandparents were definitely descended from Germans, but they were
> born in an area that is today Poland but was owned by Russia at the
> time.    So, in the 1900s, when Poland again resumed its own national
> identity, my grandparents were Germans who could claim that they were
> also Poles and Russians.
>
> May I suggest that you give SGGEE a one year trial membership to see
> what you can discover in our databases, and especially you should
> submit at least your pedigree, if not additionally data on your
> cousins who are also likely German to see if we can link your data to
> any of the names in our databases.
>
> Guessing at a correct place name is not possible without more data
> than you have supplied, but yes, there is a Rypin that is often
> mentioned in the databases that we have.
>
> Gary Warner
> SGGEE
>
> At 02:25 PM 2/17/2007, Hal and Jan Kamm wrote:
>> This is my first post on this list.
>>
>> I am a grandson of Arthur Kaminski, who arrived in US in 1907 listed
>> as Russian nationality, but German ethnicity. The ship manifest noted
>> Ripen as the town of origin. I cannot find a town named Ripen, but
>> there is one called Rypin in Kujawsko-Pomorskie, Poland.
>>
>> I am confused about the German ethnicity versus Russian/Polish
>> nationality. I had heard stories years ago about the family working
>> as millers of grain across northern Europe. Would names be changed
>> temporarily, during one generation or less, depending on where they
>> were living?
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>> Thanks
>>
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>
>
>
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