[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
Jerry Frank
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
Wed Apr 25 10:09:54 PDT 2007
Sue,
Bronwyn may have some suggestions for research in the Pila area as she has some experience in the Posen region.
As for the ethnicity of a name - I'm not sure that we can always determine why a family with one type of ethnic name would insist that they are another. In the case of my Girschewski ancestor, it would appear that the name evolved from the Germanic Gersch. The family is known to be Lutheran German as far back as it can be traced. It is also known from various sources that there were German Catholic Girschewskis and Polish Catholic Girschewskis with origins in the southeastern parts of Pomerania. I have not been able to resolve with certainty how the ethnic variations in the name occurred or if there are any genealogical connections between the families.
I have sometimes wondered if a dominant partner in a marriage might cause some of this diversity. A Polish man with a Polish surname might marry a dominant German woman who ensures that her children are raised with German language, religion and culture as important parts of their lives or vice versa.
Certainly name changes by similarity or definition are known to have occurred in both directions - German to Polish, and Polish to German. Sometimes only one branch of the family makes the change. Other times the change only shows up for a generation or two and then it reverts back. There are times when a nobleman might bestow the right of a peasant to take his name (c/w von, or ski) in appreciation for some particularly meritous service. All kinds of reason are possible.
Ultimately the proof is in the record books where we might pick up clues at least to when a name may have been changed.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: LEN GOLKE <lengolke at msn.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
> Marlo50: This question is also about the German/Polish ancestry.
> My mother's maiden name was Cicewski and her parents/grandparents
> were from the Schniedemuhl/Pila area. As far as we know they were
> always from that same area. With a name like Cicewski and an area
> that was considered "old Poland" would that not have been an
> original Polish name and origin that the family later denied when
> they were "Prussianized" They too will never admit to anything
> Polish and put much stock in the "Von" Cicewski name which I
> believe was a rather worthless title. My grandfather's village
> birthplace was Shuche or Golce, it lists it both ways on his
> naturalization/immigration papers. He came to America in 1892 at
> the age of 16. I believe that whole particular Cicewski family
> did as well, but not at the same time.
> Can you give me any help about the name-whether it is Polish or
> German and any help as to how I can trace this family back another
> generation? Thank you for your help. Sue Golke
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marlo50<mailto:Marlo50 at bex.net>
> To: Bronwyn Klimach<mailto:bronklimach at gmail.com> ; ger-poland-
> volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org<mailto:ger-poland-
> volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
>
>
> Bronwyn, when I sent the original message I had decided not to
> do any more research on this family but after all
> this response and it has helped me to
> understand a little more I am going to try
> and see what I can find. Thank you to
> everyone. You are great people.
> Margaret
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bronwyn Klimach
> To: Marlo50
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
>
>
> Hi Margaret
> ,
> I have copied all the messages on this topic and look forward
> to reading them! I recently visited some of my husband's cousins
> in Germany who were horrified when I said the family were more
> Polish (from around Suwalki) than I had thought. Rather a
> conversation killer as they went into defensive 'We are German'
> mode. My husband's sisters born in Poland before WWII insist they
> are Polish. 'Ah, that is because they went to live in UK after
> the war, but they are German'. There is more than a grain of
> truth in that reasoning, but from my searches to date it seems
> that quite a bit of Polish blood also got into their line! Around
> Suwalki it appears to me the 'Germans' mixed more with the locals
> than they did in most other places.
>
> I have written this after reading just your comment (below) so
> hope I soon get a chance to read the rest of the discussion! I'm
> happy to accept my husband's lot were rather a mixed bunch, and
> let individuals chose whichever ethnicity they wish!!
> Kind regards,
> Bron.
>
>
> On 4/24/07, Marlo50 <Marlo50 at bex.net<mailto:Marlo50 at bex.net>>
> wrote:
> To Otto, Dick, Paul and Gunther, I am very happy to have
> your replies. I do
> understand a little better now and I know my mother-in-law
> would not have
> liked my questioning her being German since that's what they
> considered to
> be. Thank you for taking time to help me understand. Margaret
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Günther Böhm" < GHBoehm at ish.de<mailto:GHBoehm at ish.de>>
> To: "Marlo50" <Marlo50 at bex.net<mailto:Marlo50 at bex.net>>
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
>
>
> > Marlo50 schrieb:
> >
> > >I have been following this subject and am totally
> confused. I am not
> > German, my husband is. His ancestry is actually Pommern
> and that is my
> > question. His grandparents were from the areas of Stolp,
> > >Rummelsburg, Lauenburg, and who knows where else. If
> Germany was not
> > unified until 1871 into one country and his ancestors
> lived in the area
> > now Poland what were they in the early years? I can
> > >only go back to births in the early 1800's but it was in
> Pommern. > What were these
> > >people? German?
> > >
> > Hello Margaret,
> > if you think of what they felt to be, they were definitely
> Germans.
> > Western Pomerania belonged to the Holy Roman Empire since
> 14th century,
> > Eastern Pomerania (Pomerellen, including Stolp,
> Rummelsburg and
> > Lauenburg) officially since 1523. But the German
> colonization of
> > Pomerania was much earlier. However, the Kashubian
> language is still
> > alive in the environment of Danzig [Gdansk]. So the ethnic
> non-German
> > Pomeranians would most probably have felt as Kashubians,
> not as Poles.
> > As I told you before, LOHROFF is a genuine German name. It
> derives from
> > Loherhof, the farm of a peasant who produced Lohe (oak
> bark) for the
> > tannery. SCHWOCHOW derives from the eponymous village
> [Polish:
> > Swochowo], Pyritz district, Pomerania. As a surname it
> doesn't identify
> > whether its first bearer spoke and felt German or Polish.
> Of course he
> > must have been an inhabitant of Schwochow (Pyritz was
> allegiant to
> > Brandenburg since 1493).
> >
> > Schwochow was first mentioned in 1274. In later 15th
> century the feudal
> > lord of the village was a von PLOTZKE or PLÖTZKE, relative
> of the late
> > Landesmeister of the Teutonic Order Heinrich v.PLÖTZKE;
> later the
> > MITZLAFF family, mayors of Stolp from 1459 to 1460, 1511
> to 1539, 1544
> > to 1579 and 1608 to 1610.
> >
> > From 1459 to 1467 a Nikolaus SWUCHOW [SCHWOCHOW] was
> mayor of Stolp. So
> > at least at that time the SCHWOCHOW family must have been
> German (the
> > listing of the German mayors of Stolp from 1340 to 1945 under
> > http://stolp.de/Stolp-Stadt/Behoerden-
> Verwaltung/buergermeister.htm<http://stolp.de/Stolp-Stadt/Behoerden-Verwaltung/buergermeister.htm> ).
> >
> > Günther
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus
> Database: > 269.5.9/773 - Release Date: 4/22/2007 8:18 PM
> >
> >
>
>
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