[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German or polish
Kerstin Petersen
kerstin.petersen at mail.dk
Tue Apr 24 15:03:39 PDT 2007
All around Europe borders have been different through the centuries. At
times germans lived in France, Tjeckoslovakia, Denmark and so on. But you
are still german or french or danish. It goes way back. The border between
Germany and Denmark (Scandinavia) has been different too. We have here in
this part of Denmark a german minority, as they have in Poland and in France
and so on.
The family of my grandmother where german settlers. Came to Poland and
futher on to Volhynia and 1914 they left Volhynia for Germany. (They settled
in Nordschlesvig and after WWI this part of Germany thorugh a referendum
came back to Denmark after 56 years of german rule).However they where still
germans where ever they lived.
If you live in another country your name can change (as I can see some of
the names has been for the ones who left for America). My family name is
Seibt. The brother of my grandfathers name is Seibke - because he stayed in
Poland and the name was ajusted (or what ever you can call it).
Regards
Kerstin Petersen
Denmark
----- Original Message -----
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 47, Issue 25
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Germans and Poland (Paul Rakow)
> 2. Re: Germans and Poland (Marlo50)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:26:23 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Paul Rakow <rakow at ifh.de>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704231948010.10617 at pub1.ifh.de>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Hello Margaret,
>
> I just got back yesterday from a visit to Pommern, (where my
> ancestors on my father's side came from).
>
> As you've gathered, before 1871 there was no Germany, but lots
> of little states, duchies, electorates, bishoprics, etc. Through most of
> the middle ages Pommern was a duchy (or two - sometimes the ruling family
> split the East and West parts between them). At the beginning of the
> 1600s the ruling family started dying at an alarming rate - this was
> blamed on witchcraft, the witch was tracked down and executed, but it
> didn't help.
>
> The last Duke of Pommern was Bogislaw the Fourteenth, he died in 1637
> (during the 30 years War) without an heir. Brandenburg and Sweden both
> had claims to Pommern. In 1648, when the 30 years war ended, they split
> it, Sweden got the West, Brandenburg the East. (Oversimplifying a bit
> here - Poland also got some bits of Pommern at about this time, such
> as Lauenburg, but they soon went to Brandenburg, at least in practice)
>
> Then in 1701 Brandenburg decided to rename itself Prussia, and the
> rulers started calling themselves kings instead of electors.
>
> Then in 1871 Germany was formed, and the Kings of Prussia
> promoted themselves again, this time to Kaisers of Germany.
>
> Pommern was already Prussian before the time of the partitions of
> Poland, so they aren't so relevant to your husband's family's history.
>
> So, if you want a simplified version of who ruled Eastern Pomerania
> in the 1600s, 1700s and 1800s:
>
> It was the Dukes of Pomerania up till 1637,
>
> A bit unclear in the 1640s and 1650s,
>
> The Electors of Brandenburg from 1648 or 1658, till 1701.
>
> The Kings in/of Prussia from 1701 till 1871.
>
> Then the German Kaisers from 1871 till 1918,
>
> (but these three - Electors of Brandenburg, Kings of Prussia, and
> Kaisers of Germany, were really the same family, just giving themselves
> more and more elevated titles as time went on).
>
> The German republic from 1918 till 1945,
>
> Poland from 1945 on.
>
> I'll leave it to others to discuss to what extent that makes your
> husband Polish or German.
>
> Does this leave you any less confused then before?
>
> Paul Rakow
> rakow at ifh.de
>
> "Marlo50" <Marlo50 at bex.net> wrote:
>
>> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
>>
>>
>> I have been following this subject and am totally confused. I am not
>> German, my husband is. His ancestry is actually Pommern and that is
>> my question. His grandparents were from the areas of Stolp,
>> Rummelsburg, Lauenburg, and who knows where else. If Germany was not
>> unified until 1871 into one country and his ancestors lived in the
>> area now Poland what were they in the early years? I can
>> only go back to births in the early 1800's but it was in Pommern.
>> What were these
>> people? German? Wasn't this area part
>> of what was Poland and partitioned several times to give to other
>> countries? The ancestors who were born in the 1700's and the 1600's,
>> are what I am curious about. I
>> will never get that far back but I am still curious. What nationality
>> would they have been? The names are Loroff/Lohroff and Schwochow and
>> Villwock. Do they sound German? The other thing is there are so many
>> villages with the same name. My husbands maternal grandparents moved
>> to Volhynia from someplace in Rummelsburg (I think) and that only adds
>> to the confusion. Please forgive my ignorance, but it is really a
>> mystery. I wish I could read and speak German, I am sure
>> that would make it much easier.
>
>> Margaret
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:27:23 -0400
> From: "Marlo50" <Marlo50 at bex.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <001e01c78607$54ba0a40$147cf148 at Margaretws>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> To Otto, Dick, Paul and Gunther, I am very happy to have your replies. I
> do
> understand a little better now and I know my mother-in-law would not have
> liked my questioning her being German since that's what they considered to
> be. Thank you for taking time to help me understand. Margaret
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "G?nther B?hm" <GHBoehm at ish.de>
> To: "Marlo50" <Marlo50 at bex.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
>
>
>> Marlo50 schrieb:
>>
>> >I have been following this subject and am totally confused. I am not
>> German, my husband is. His ancestry is actually Pommern and that is my
>> question. His grandparents were from the areas of Stolp,
>> >Rummelsburg, Lauenburg, and who knows where else. If Germany was not
>> unified until 1871 into one country and his ancestors lived in the area
>> now Poland what were they in the early years? I can
>> >only go back to births in the early 1800's but it was in Pommern.
>> What were these
>> >people? German?
>> >
>> Hello Margaret,
>> if you think of what they felt to be, they were definitely Germans.
>> Western Pomerania belonged to the Holy Roman Empire since 14th century,
>> Eastern Pomerania (Pomerellen, including Stolp, Rummelsburg and
>> Lauenburg) officially since 1523. But the German colonization of
>> Pomerania was much earlier. However, the Kashubian language is still
>> alive in the environment of Danzig [Gdansk]. So the ethnic non-German
>> Pomeranians would most probably have felt as Kashubians, not as Poles.
>> As I told you before, LOHROFF is a genuine German name. It derives from
>> Loherhof, the farm of a peasant who produced Lohe (oak bark) for the
>> tannery. SCHWOCHOW derives from the eponymous village [Polish:
>> Swochowo], Pyritz district, Pomerania. As a surname it doesn't identify
>> whether its first bearer spoke and felt German or Polish. Of course he
>> must have been an inhabitant of Schwochow (Pyritz was allegiant to
>> Brandenburg since 1493).
>>
>> Schwochow was first mentioned in 1274. In later 15th century the feudal
>> lord of the village was a von PLOTZKE or PL?TZKE, relative of the late
>> Landesmeister of the Teutonic Order Heinrich v.PL?TZKE; later the
>> MITZLAFF family, mayors of Stolp from 1459 to 1460, 1511 to 1539, 1544
>> to 1579 and 1608 to 1610.
>>
>> From 1459 to 1467 a Nikolaus SWUCHOW [SCHWOCHOW] was mayor of Stolp. So
>> at least at that time the SCHWOCHOW family must have been German (the
>> listing of the German mayors of Stolp from 1340 to 1945 under
>> http://stolp.de/Stolp-Stadt/Behoerden-Verwaltung/buergermeister.htm ).
>>
>> G?nther
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
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