[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Deportation of Germans to Siberia

[Gilda J. Patterson]

I find this discussion of the deportation of Germans to Siberia very
interesting as I have my own questions regarding my grandparents's
experience. They were deported from their home (Rydzyno), Kingdom of Poland,
Russia around 1914, my grandmother might've been pregnant with her first son
(already had one daughter aged 1 1/2), the son was subsequently born Nov 20,
1915 in Sarepta (changed to Stalingrad, currently Volgogrod), Russia; and my
grandfather was imprisoned for a time. They do not appear on the list.

The Story: My grandparents were removed from their home, had 24-hours to
take simple belongings, travelled by train, (my grandmother was so angry she
kicked a pee bucket that was in the middle of the train & it hit my eldest
aunt in the forhead accidently, whereby she had a slight forehead scar and
had to wear bangs). Grandmother gave birth to her first son there, then they
had one more child, a daughter born there, who died of small pox at age 10
months, buried in Sarepta. Grandfather's conditions in the prison were so
poor, that he said he had to eat soup with worms in it. (I believe that this
was due to the meat). He was eventually released, and when they returned to
their home, all their land and possessions were gone (expropriated I think)
& grandfather wanted to do away with himself. Thank goodness he didn't, and
my mother was born there. They immigrated to Canada in 1927 (word is because
of the pogroms). I know there were quite a few various pogroms taking places
from various factions, but not sure what these were.

Is anyone aware of this area Sarepta - Stalingrad - Volgogrod? And the
deportations that took place to that area?

It is so exciting to research these possibilities. But I love facts, and
find them hard to obtain without a lot of effort. Thank you for your input.

Gilda Patterson
Calgary, Alberta, CANADA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:01 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19


> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Deportation of Germans to Siberia (richard benert)
>    2. Re: Deportations (Burnstwo at aol.com)
>    3. Re: Deportation of Volhynian Germans to Siberia (Dan)
>    4. Re: Re: Deportations (Karl Krueger)
>    5. Re: Deportations and EWZ records (Nancy Gertner)
>    6. Expropriations and EWZ records (Dave Obee)
>    7. Re: Re: Deportations (richard benert)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:45:45 -0700
> From: "richard benert" <benovich at imt.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deportation of Germans to Siberia
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>, "JUSTIN L DINGMAN"
> <jld194112 at juno.com>
> Message-ID: <006401c52f20$1fe70560$59e289d1 at richard01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Justin,
>
> Some Germans may have been deported to Siberia before 1914, but I think
that
> most German settlers before that date went there voluntarily, with the
> government's blessing.  I'm not aware of any listing of names of
individuals
> deported, although names  probably exist (at least in some cases) in court
> or administrative records.  Don Miller has made a start at finding such
> names in his "Under Arrest", but the project of finding them all is
enormous
> to the point of being impossible.
>
> And yes, there were many deaths, but again, no lists that we know of.
>
> Dick Benert
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JUSTIN L DINGMAN" <jld194112 at juno.com>
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:02 PM
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deportation of Germans to Siberia
>
>
> > IS THERE ANY LISTINGS DEPORTATION OF GERMANS TO SIBERIA DURING THE
PERIOD
> > BEFORE WORLD WAR I AND AFTER?  I FIGURED THERE WERE MANY DEATHS GOING TO
> > SIBERIA? IS THERE A LISTING OF THOSE?
> > ANY HELP WOULD VERY MUCH GRATEFUL.
> > RESPECTFULLY,
> > JUSTIN L DINGMAN
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:34:41 EST
> From: Burnstwo at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Deportations
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <9.4079ec28.2f71e971 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I wanted to float a few more ideas for those looking for information on
> deportations.
>
> Regarding deportations from WWI - _www.wolhynien.de_
> (http://www.wolhynien.de)  has a list of deportees  listed in a 1916
Zhitomer newspaper.  You can find
> the list under the  button marked "Zeitung, Shitomer 1916" on the opening
> page.  Names appear  by town and an alphabetical index can be found at the
top of
> the page.  I  have found that deportees can be listed by town of residence
OR
> on a nearby  town's list.  You can confirm if you relatives were on the
list
> - but not  where they were sent. This is Irene Kopetzki's very fine site
for
> Volhynia.  Kristen Feifert Clark: Nedbajewka is on the list, however I do
not
> find the other two towns translated.  Contact Irene (her email contact  is
on
> the website) and ask if deportee listings from these two towns are
> available.
>
> The EWZ films, which can be found under "War Documents" on the pixel site
> may also list your relatives whereabouts by date, including the towns they
were
> deported to for both WWI and WWII.  The EWZ documents are where I  found
my
> Gottschalk family was deported to a town called Astrakhan (on the  Caspian
Sea)
> in WWI and to a town called "Kaminskoje" which is just north of
Kazachstan
> and a Trud Army Labor Camp in WWII.  Look for  the "Odessa Digital
Library"
> link under "Other Sites of Interest" on the  SGGEE main page for a list of
names
> and their EWZ location  (near the  bottom of the page). Do a "Full Text
> Search" and adjust the drop down box  for "War Records."  Kristen:  a
Feifert family
> is listed and an EWZ  record is available.
>
> Research through the archive in Zhitomer shows one Gottschalk was sent to
> the "Northern Regions".  Finding the exact town looks to be impossible,
but
> this area was generally referred to as "Siberia."  The archive was able to
> locate the actual NKVD trial records. If any of you are interested, email
me
> separately and I will give you the email of the researcher.
>
> Correspondence with a Drigert relative who just made it back to Germany in
> 1996 (!) has shown that many of the people from Beresowo Hath, Blumenthal
and
> Pulin areas were sent to the town of Thelman in Kazachstan.  Apparently
there
> were many GRUS there.  Perhaps others on the list may have  information
about
> areas where their families were sent.   Kristen:  Irene has a connection
to
> Nedbajewka, I believe, and  may know more of the deportation locations
from
> that area for both WWI and  WWII.
>
> Carol Gottschalk Burns
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:55:37 -0500
> From: "Dan" <dbuss at pathcom.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deportation of Volhynian Germans to
> Siberia
> To: "richard benert" <benovich at imt.net>,
> <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <001a01c52f32$43f1af70$0207a8c0 at super>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Hello Richard
>     You asked for anyone who has a story re; the deportation, to pass it
on.
> The following few lines are gleaned from notes my eldest brother, Bernard
> Buss (now deceased) had written about a letter written by our Uncle Bill
> (Wilhelm Buss), born Sept 1899 re: our ancestors.(he is also deceased).
> Specifically, he (Bill) was referring to our Great Grandparents Wilhelm
Buss
> and Julianna (nee Nikolai).
>     "Then in 1915 during World War 1, the German people were all removed
> from the Russian Province of Volhynia as the German armies advanced and
were
> transported far inland and right across the mighty Volga River to the
> vicinity of Buzuluk, where they lived until 1918.  Uncle Bill has it that
> they lived at Podolsk, which of course is wrong (sic). Buzuluk was in the
> Province of Samara, now Kuibyshev.
> Wilhelm and Julianna went in company with their eldest son Julius.  In
1916
> Wilhelm died at about 80.  He was laid to rest in the Buzuluk cemetery.
His
> wife Julianna died in 1918 whilst on the return journey to Volhynia by
rough
> box-car train.  She was laid to rest in the city of Sysran on the banks of
> the Volga, in what was then the Province of Penza.  Julius also died in
> 1916, at 52".
>     I hope this helps alittle bit, where names of deportees may be found.
> Dan Buss   dbuss at pathcom.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "richard benert" <benovich at imt.net>
> To: <Ohgrmtns at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deportation of Volhynian Germans to
> Siberia
>
>
> > Sorry to be so slow in responding, but I've been busily entertaining my
> > visiting kids on the nearby slopes of the Bridger Mts. It's a tough
life.
> >
> > Karl Krueger is correct.  There are (in all likelihood) no lists of
> > deportees.  The only possible exception might be (if I correctly
remember
> > an email I once got from Eric Lohr at Harvard) some early deportees from
> > Poland who were instructed to take the trains provided for the purpose
and
> > might thereby have gotten their names on a list.  I think he told me
that
> > such lists might be in the archives of the Army or the railroad
> > administrations. Finding them would be a monstrous task.  But the
> > expulsion in Volhynia was carried out in much too chaotic a fashion
> > (mostly by wagon) for names to have been collected.
> >
> > I shouldn't make promises, but I do have in mind to write something on
the
> > Deportation of 1915 one of these days.  And I'll be finishing up (I
hope)
> > the talk on this subject that I started at last year's Convention in
> > Calgary at this year's Convention in St. Paul.  In the meantime, if
anyone
> > has specific questions, please feel free to ask me.  It might just
happen
> > that I've read something that might have a bearing on them.
> >
> > I'd also like to urge anyone who has a story about the Deportation to
tell
> > me about it.  I'm relying heavily on personal accounts of the
experience,
> > and the more, the better.
> >
> > Dick Benert
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <Ohgrmtns at aol.com>
> > To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:59 PM
> > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deportation of Volhynian Germans to
Siberia
> >
> >
> >>I am looking for any information on the deportation of Volhynian Germans
> >>to
> >> Siberia in WWI.
> >> I am interested to know if my family appeared on any records or lists
as
> >> being sent. My dad has talked of at least my g-gmother, KAROLINE
FEIFERT
> >> going
> >> to Siberia. The remainder of the family would have been HEINRICH, EMIL,
> >> OTTILIE,  and perhaps ALBERTINE and SAMUEL. Can anyone point me in the
> >> direction I
> >> need to  go or provide me with a bit more information?
> >>
> >>
> >> Kristen FEIFERT Clark
> >>
> >> Researching : FEIFERT, STIEBNER,  NEUBERT, KOCHAN
> >> Searching: Nedbajewka, Rohrbach(Berjozowka),  Gruental
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:34:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Deportations
> To: Burnstwo at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <20050322233430.89156.qmail at web40422.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I just want to make sure everyone realizes that the Odessa Digital Library
(ODL) will only cover the Russian Volhynian records of EWZ. Even at that I
believe ODL is not complete as I have done searches for others in the
National Archives who did not find certain relatives but I did find their
records on microfilm. So my feeling is the ODL EWZ data is really incomplete
and they are still assimilating that data as more GRHS members purchase
additional EWZ50 films for their presonal use.
>
> If your relatives were in Polish Volhynia, then you would have to look in
EWZ52 which are not ODL.
>
> Burnstwo at aol.com wrote:
> I wanted to float a few more ideas for those looking for information on
> deportations.
>
> Regarding deportations from WWI - _www.wolhynien.de_
> (http://www.wolhynien.de) has a list of deportees listed in a 1916
Zhitomer newspaper. You can find
> the list under the button marked "Zeitung, Shitomer 1916" on the opening
> page. Names appear by town and an alphabetical index can be found at the
top of
> the page. I have found that deportees can be listed by town of residence
OR
> on a nearby town's list. You can confirm if you relatives were on the list
> - but not where they were sent. This is Irene Kopetzki's very fine site
for
> Volhynia. Kristen Feifert Clark: Nedbajewka is on the list, however I do
not
> find the other two towns translated. Contact Irene (her email contact is
on
> the website) and ask if deportee listings from these two towns are
> available.
>
> The EWZ films, which can be found under "War Documents" on the pixel site
> may also list your relatives whereabouts by date, including the towns they
were
> deported to for both WWI and WWII. The EWZ documents are where I found my
> Gottschalk family was deported to a town called Astrakhan (on the Caspian
Sea)
> in WWI and to a town called "Kaminskoje" which is just north of Kazachstan
> and a Trud Army Labor Camp in WWII. Look for the "Odessa Digital Library"
> link under "Other Sites of Interest" on the SGGEE main page for a list of
names
> and their EWZ location (near the bottom of the page). Do a "Full Text
> Search" and adjust the drop down box for "War Records." Kristen: a Feifert
family
> is listed and an EWZ record is available.
>
> Research through the archive in Zhitomer shows one Gottschalk was sent to
> the "Northern Regions". Finding the exact town looks to be impossible, but
> this area was generally referred to as "Siberia." The archive was able to
> locate the actual NKVD trial records. If any of you are interested, email
me
> separately and I will give you the email of the researcher.
>
> Correspondence with a Drigert relative who just made it back to Germany in
> 1996 (!) has shown that many of the people from Beresowo Hath, Blumenthal
and
> Pulin areas were sent to the town of Thelman in Kazachstan. Apparently
there
> were many GRUS there. Perhaps others on the list may have information
about
> areas where their families were sent. Kristen: Irene has a connection to
> Nedbajewka, I believe, and may know more of the deportation locations from
> that area for both WWI and WWII.
>
> Carol Gottschalk Burns
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:46:34 -0600
> From: Nancy Gertner <nancygertner at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deportations and EWZ records
> To: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Burnstwo at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <b650036c50f7ae3be189323159ebfcdc at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> I think the EWZ reports contained in the Odessa Digital Library are
> only the tip of the iceberg, as there are many drawers of microfilms at
> National Archives II in College Park, Maryland containing the EWZ
> records.  The microfilms are so numerous that one or more thick
> notebook binders are required to index them.
>
> Nancy
>
> On Mar 22, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Karl Krueger wrote:
>
> > I just want to make sure everyone realizes that the Odessa Digital
> > Library (ODL) will only cover the Russian Volhynian records of EWZ.
> > Even at that I believe ODL is not complete as I have done searches for
> > others in the National Archives who did not find certain relatives but
> > I did find their records on microfilm. So my feeling is the ODL EWZ
> > data is really incomplete and they are still assimilating that data as
> > more GRHS members purchase additional EWZ50 films for their presonal
> > use.
> >
> > If your relatives were in Polish Volhynia, then you would have to look
> > in EWZ52 which are not ODL.
> >
> > Burnstwo at aol.com wrote:
> > I wanted to float a few more ideas for those looking for information on
> > deportations.
> > The EWZ films, which can be found under "War Documents" on the pixel
> > site
> > may also list your relatives whereabouts by date, including the towns
> > they were
> > deported to for both WWI and WWII. The EWZ documents are where I found
> > my
> > Gottschalk family was deported to a town called Astrakhan (on the
> > Caspian Sea)
> > in WWI and to a town called "Kaminskoje" which is just north of
> > Kazachstan
> > and a Trud Army Labor Camp in WWII. Look for the "Odessa Digital
> > Library"
> > link under "Other Sites of Interest" on the SGGEE main page for a list
> > of names
> > and their EWZ location (near the bottom of the page). Do a "Full Text
> > Search" and adjust the drop down box for "War Records." Kristen: a
> > Feifert family
> > is listed and an EWZ record is available.
> > Carol Gottschalk Burns
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:35:31 -0800
> From: Dave Obee <daveobee at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Expropriations and EWZ records
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <001101c52f6a$21522e80$6401a8c0 at gv.shawcable.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Further to the discussion on these two subjects:
>
> Re expropriations-- Irene has the names from a bunch of villages on her
> site, and I have the names from a few villages on my site, but the
ultimate
> list was compiled by Brent Mai and published by the AHSGR about six years
> ago. These lists were all based on the newspaper that is held at the
> archives in Zhitomir; copies of the list were one of the first important
> documents we got out after the fall of Communism. The master list in the
> newspaper brought together a huge amount of lists that had been published
> over the previous year. Virtually every issue of the paper for six months
or
> so had a list of names. I did a comparison of some of the interim lists
and
> the master one, and it appears the master lists does indeed include all of
> the names published before it, although with a different numbering system.
>
> The newspaper published a few names after that master list as well, and
for
> several people gave a huge amount of information, dealing with assets
rather
> than with family history, unfortunately for us. I copied the entries for a
> couple of the people, and someday will actually get around to having them
> translated.
>
> The archives in Zhitomir also has files that on first glance provide the
> same information that was published in the paper -- but the lists in these
> files DO NOT match the ones published. I have seen a variation of about 40
> per cent, which is significant if you're looking for a person who is on
one
> list but not another. I have extracted the names for a couple of my
> villages, and will try to get more done this summer.
>
> Re EWZ -- The Odessa3 site has a wonderful index, and I don't know offhand
> the percentage of films covered, but it is a long, long way from being
> complete. About 50 of my EWZ50 series films are being indexed by the
> Mennonite historical society here in B.C., so that information will be
added
> to the master database at some point down the road. The index is a superb
> idea -- I have even used it while at College Park, where all of the films
> are held. The key series are in alphabetical order, but the index includes
> people other than the principle person, so it is possible to get deeper
into
> the files. (For example, if you want to find people whose mothers had a
> specific maiden name.)
>
> The EWZ files do include information on the deportations during the First
> World War, although of course there are times when the places listed are
not
> quite as concise as we would like.
>
> Dave Obee
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:09:46 -0700
> From: "richard benert" <benovich at imt.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Deportations
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <003c01c52fdb$e266ac10$e7e289d1 at richard01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Only a person suffering from terminal absence of mind could have said
there
> were no lists of 1915 deportees when he himself had worked on the project
of
> transliterating the Zhitomir newspaper lists.  Thanks to those who
corrected
> my mistake and were kind enough to refrain from calling for the men in
white
> coats to pay me a visit.  However, in a lame attempt to excuse myself, I
> should point out that the newspaper list, strictly speaking, was a list of
> expropriated farms, not of deported people.  Not all deportees were on it.
> My grandfather Boehnert and my aunt and uncle from Solodyri were deported
> but not listed, and I would love to know why not.  Just administrative
> inefficiency, or was there a more substantial reason?
>
> Dick Benert
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
> ***************************************************