[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Grudzienski Alternate name
gpvjem
gpvjem at sasktel.net
Wed Sep 24 05:28:53 PDT 2003
A translation of the German language email is provided immediately below for those who have difficulty with German.
John Marsch
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Grudzienski, Kluth and then the place names Ksawerow or Xawerow caught my attention.
I have been reading this list for some time, and that is why this E-mail serves at the same time as my introduction.
Primarily, I am searching for Kludt, Kluth, Klut and all related names (also related with Kludt by marriage) In Germany (Rhine region, Brandenburg, Westprussia, the Netze river area, and the administrative district of Posen.) in Poland and southern Russia. Once I came across the name Grudzienski, or Grudzinski or Grudzinsky.
Among my ancestors I have one case, the brother of my great-great-great-grandfather, where all the names and place names apply. Unfortunately, I have only a few facts about this man, but my great-great-grandfather mentioned him in his diary, and he visited this uncle of his in Poland in the years 1834/35.
The available dates and facts are:
Christoph Kludt (Grudzienski). I do not have the years of his birth or death. According to my great-great grandfather, Friedrich August Kludt *1811-1897), he lived in "Holand Murski" during 1835/35. He was a tailor and teacher. At the given time (1834/35) he must have been in his middle or late forties, for he was the youngest of six siblings who were still alive at that time.
Unfortunately, I have only the date of birth of my great-great-great-grandfather, Johann Kludt (1783-1862). He was the fourth child of his parents. His older siblings were called Martin, Michael and Katharine, his younger siblings were Maria, and the relevant Christoph.
I have some doubts about the spelling of "Holand Murski", since I cannot locate the place. Nearby must have been another place, called Holand Ladna, for this settlement had been visited from Holand Murski because there were relatives there named Dreher. I have not been able to locate "Holand Ladna" either up to now. But in the genealogocal records "Compgend-L" and "AGoFF-L" I found that listed in the above-mentioned locality KSAWEROW (Xawerow) and vicinity the names Grudzienski, Kludt, Kluth, Klut, Will, Wild and Wilde can be found. These are all names which apply to my ancestors in Poland.
I received this information but recently. Bacause I am presently looking for the names Kludt etc, in different church records (five of them right now) from the county Czarnikau, administrative district Posen, I have not perused the relevant church records of Ksawerowa (Xawerowa). But I am going to tackle those within the next few months.
I can relate in a future E-mail, if such is desired, how Christoph Kludt (Grudzienski) acquired his wrong name, and why he became Roman Catholic.
With cordial greetings,
Jvrg Brauer, Berlin, Germany
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From: Joerg Brauer
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:48 AM
Hello Mrs. Ingram, hello Mr. Muth
Please excuse mine English I have it with a program translates and it'
ll some longer as usual.
>From Mrs. Ingram:
> Does any one know if Grudzienski translates into an
> alternate name in German?
>From Mr. Muth
> Kluth (residing in Ksawerow, old spelling Xawerow) alternates
> with this surname in the Catholic records of Sobotka, Leczyca, Lodz.
GRUDZIENSKI, KLUTH and then the places KSAWEROW or XAWEROW as rang by
myself all Alarm bells.
I read on this list already awhile with therefore ist diese Mail at
the same time also mine association.
I seek mainly after KLUDT, KLUTH, KLUT, and all Kinsfolk names (by
marriage with KLUDT cognate) in Germany (Rhineland, Brandenburg, West
Prussia, Netze district, district Poses) in Poles and South Russia,
under it unique also the name GRUDZIENSKI (GRUDZINSKI, GRUDZINSKY) and
similar being called.
I have under my ancestors (brother mine 3x great grandfather's) a case
where all this names and place names be true.
I have for this man unfortunately mere very few data, but mine 2x
great grandfather has in his diary this matter described and he has in
the years 1834/35 these his uncle in poles visits.
The available datand facts:
Christoph KLUDT (GRUDZIENSKI) birds- and die data property I not to.
Around 1834/35 lived he after statements mine 2x great grandfather's
Friedrich August KLUDT (1811-1897) in *Holand Murski* he was tailor
and teacher. He has to be at that time (1834/35) perhaps middle by the
time end 40 been be because he was the youngest for 6 Brothers and
sisters the at that time (1834/35) yet lived. I have unfortunately
mere the dates of birth mine 3x great grandfather's Johann KLUDT
(1783-1862) he was as viertes child his parents born. His older
brothers and sisters were called Martin, Michael and Katharine, the
after him born were called Mary and the here relevante Christopher.
To the style of the above called Ortes *Holand Murski* property I mean
doubts as I the place not to find can, near by has to be it but yet a
place *Holand Ladna* given have because this place was for *Holand
Murski* out visits because it there DREHER kinsfolk gave. Also *Holand
Ladna* property I so far not found. But through the for myself tapped
genealogist lists *Compgend-L* and *AGoFF-L* property I the
communication conserve that it in the called place KSAWEROW (XAWEROW)
and environment the names GRUDZIENSKI, KLUDT, KLUTH, KLUT, WILL, WILD,
and WILDE gives. All surnames the by my ancestors in poles be found.
This information property I first lately got. Because I at present but
other churches books from the circle Czarnikau government district
poses after KLUDT etc by seek (at present 5) property I in the
relevanten Churches books for KSAWEROW (XAWEROW) not yet checked. That
becoming but in the ndchsten Months for myself in attack taken.
As Chistoph KLUDT (GRUDZIENSKI) zu seinem false names come is and why
he Catholic was to it property I yet a story, the tell I if it wished
becoming in a further Mail.
Sincerely yours
Joerg Brauer out Berlin, Germany
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Der Text in Deutsch
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Hallo Frau Ingram, Hallo Herr Muth.
Entschuldigen sie mein Englisch ich habe es mit einem Programm
|bersetzt und es wird etwas ldnger als |blich.
Von Frau Ingram.
> Does any one know if Grudzienski translates into an
> alternate name in German?
Von Herrn Muth.
> Kluth (residing in Ksawerow, old spelling Xawerow) alternates
> with this surname in the Catholic records of Sobotka, Leczyca, Lodz.
GRUDZIENSKI, KLUTH und dann die Orte KSAWEROW oder XAWEROW da
klingelten bei mir alle Alarmglocken.
Ich lese auf dieser Liste schon eine Weile mit deshalb ist diese Mail
gleichzeitig auch meine Vorstellung.
Ich suche hauptsdchlich nach KLUDT, KLUTH, KLUT, und allen
anverwandten Namen (durch Heirat mit KLUDT verwandt) in Deutschland
(Rheinland, Brandenburg, Westpreu_en, Netzedistrikt, Reg. Bez. Posen)
in Polen und S|dru_land, darunter ist einmalig auch der Name
GRUDZIENSKI (GRUDZINSKI, GRUDZINSKY) und dhnlich hei_end.
Ich habe unter meinen Vorfahren (Bruder meines 3x Urgro_vaters) einen
Fall wo alle diese Namen und Ortsbezeichnungen zutreffen.
Ich habe von diesem Mann leider nur sehr wenige Daten, aber Mein 2x
Urgro_vater hat in seinem Tagebuch diesen Fall geschildert und er hat
in den Jahren 1834/35 diesen seinen Onkel in Polen besucht.
Die vorhandenen Daten und Fakten:
Christoph KLUDT (GRUDZIENSKI) Geburts- und Sterbedaten habe ich nicht.
Um 1834/35 lebte er nach Angaben meines 2x Urgro_vaters Friedrich
August KLUDT (1811-1897) in *Holand Murski* er war Schneider und
Lehrer. Er mu_ damals (1834/35) etwa Mitte bis Ende 40 gewesen sein
denn er war der J|ngste von 6 Geschwistern die damals (1834/35) noch
lebten. Ich habe leider nur die Geburtsdaten meines 3x Urgro_vaters
Johann KLUDT (1783-1862) er wurde als viertes Kind seiner Eltern
geboren. Seine dlteren Geschwister hie_en Martin, Michael und
Katharine, die nach ihm geborenen hie_en Maria und der hier relevante
Christoph.
An der Schreibweise des oben genannten Ortes *Holand Murski* habe ich
meine Zweifel da ich den Ort nicht finden kann, in der Ndhe mu_ es
aber noch einen Ort *Holand Ladna* gegeben haben denn dieser Ort wurde
von *Holand Murski* aus besucht weil es dort DREHER Verwandte gab.
Auch *Holand Ladna* habe ich bisher nicht gefunden. Aber |ber die von
mir genutzten genealogischen Listen *Compgend-L* und *AGoFF-L* habe
ich die Mitteilung erhalten das es in dem genannten Ort KSAWEROW
(XAWEROW) und Umgebung die Namen GRUDZIENSKI, KLUDT, KLUTH, KLUT,
WILL, WILD, und WILDE gibt. Alles Familiennamen die bei meinen
Vorfahren in Polen vorkommen.
Diese Information habe ich erst k|rzlich bekommen. Weil ich zur Zeit
aber andere Kirchenb|cher aus dem Kreis Czarnikau Regierungsbezirk
Posen nach KLUDT usw. durchsuche (zur Zeit 5) habe ich in den
relevanten Kirchenb|chern von KSAWEROW (XAWEROW) noch nicht
nachgesehen. Das wird aber in den ndchsten Monaten von mir in Angriff
genommen.
Wie Chistoph KLUDT (GRUDZIENSKI) zu seinem falschen Namen gekommen ist
und warum er Katholik wurde dazu habe ich noch eine Geschichte, die
erzdhle ich wenn es gew|nscht wird in einer weiteren Mail.
Mit freundlichen Gr|_en
Jvrg Brauer aus Berlin, Deutschland
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